Vehicles in Fallout

Smiley · Post by **Smiley** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:57 pm

Dan wrote:Heh... This is good.
Your'e telling him not to compare cars to more high tech machinery when you just compared a car to a shovel... Go figure.

I weren't comparing the two, I was comparing the "life-span" of objects in the wasteland, and I doubt that the wood-piece of the shovel would hold even a tenth of the time than the metal would.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 9:53 pm

Rayt wrote:
Silver wrote:
Mad Max RW wrote:Getting a vehicle to run on alternative fuel isn't that difficult.
Indeed. My country uses a tank called the Leopard 2. It is capable on running on turf, I don't know if that is the english word, but turf is something they dug up in masses around the 1900 to warm stoves. 'Turf' is nothing short of a mineral rich type of mud.
'Turf' is dried peat.

Copy,

Well anyways, I just rememberd. Many times I had no fuel for my motocrossah' and I threw some lettuce oil (literaly translated) with some normal oil and I could drive, just with a big ass fume.

Points is, you don't need Diesel, Gas, or whatever you get @ a gas station to get something driving. Just get some cow shit and alcohol, try it out a bit and your moving

.

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:01 am

Silver wrote:Points is, you don't need Diesel, Gas, or whatever you get @ a gas station to get something driving. Just get some cow shit and alcohol, try it out a bit and your moving .

Okay, tell me when you've gotten your car to run on cow shit, seeing as how it's so easy to do, and I'll concede the point. That is, YOU do it, not link to a website where someone else has done it. You can even start with a working car, not hundreds of cars that have been sitting around, rusting away for over a century.

Strap · Post by **Strap** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:06 am

nevermind

Fez · Post by **Fez** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:09 am

Saint_Proverbius wrote:
Fez wrote:Maybe they were just hiding them,
Which is why they walked the Vault Dweller to Mariposa? If Supermutants aren't enough of a threat to whip out the general purpose vehicles, I don't know what would be.

That was a joke and a rather obvious one at that. I don't mind a bit of friend;y debate, but it's unfair and bad manners to edit the quote out of context and pretend I was serious when I said that.

I think you've been playing too much of the Fallout Tactics. The Brotherhood rarely assault, they isolate themselves in their bunker, and they don't think they have anything to fear from anyone else. Why would they assault or patrol?

The BOS had regular patrols in Fallout, and you must have come across a few while playing it surely?

The only reason Fallout didn't have a cars (or other vehicles) is probably because of the difficulty of putting them into the game (animation, balance, etc.). The sequel got a car as a useful bonus with quests attached, but it was very limited and was just really a static image, this again points to the reason being that they didn't have the ability or the resources to implement cars into the game properly. I think that vehicles would add a lot to a future game in the series, but only if they implemented it properly. It'd certainly add something to the combat aspect as long as they make it more than just a portable container, ala Fallout 2.

Saint_Proverbius wrote:
Silver wrote:Points is, you don't need Diesel, Gas, or whatever you get @ a gas station to get something driving. Just get some cow shit and alcohol, try it out a bit and your moving .
Okay, tell me when you've gotten your car to run on cow shit, seeing as how it's so easy to do, and I'll concede the point. That is, YOU do it, not link to a website where someone else has done it. You can even start with a working car, not hundreds of cars that have been sitting around, rusting away for over a century.

I think the best you could do is get methane out of it like in Mad Max, the only thing that's going to get anyone shovelling that much shit is desperation or a few nukes!

Just to corrupt the path of conversation further, what if we included trains and boats into the debate? The mutants had steam trucks, steam trains would have a lot of uses.

Fez · Post by **Fez** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:17 am

I think until we know what form the game is going to be like and what's going to be included, we can't really say what is the best for skills. Is it going to be more hi-tech then previous games? Low-tech? I think what matters most are the settings, story and quests, the skills shouldn't get in the way of playing the game and as long as they don't feel like a limitation upon expressing the game character, I'm sure that most people would be happy with that.

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 2:49 am

Strapon2 wrote:could we get back to talking about those skills? or has that been exhausted and now its all about what cars can/should run on?

I just had to mention Piloting didn't I? Anyway, I think that there should be an athletics skill.

Post by **DarkUnderlord** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:20 am

Smiley wrote:I can see why you think it'd be so hard, with all those large and utterly insanely complicated constructions... Oh wait...! It isn't, you know why?
BECAUSE IT'S A FRIGGIN CAR!.... *seethe*...

You've built your own have you?

Your argument is that because we CAN rebuild a car in real-life, there-fore you will be able to rebuild one in Fallout. Fallout, a world where we still use vacuum tubes, we have holodisks that hold a whopping 64kb of information, where reel-to-reel tape computer backups are "modern storage devices" and cars still run on a derivative of oil... While the weapons are more advanced than anything we have today, shooting laser bolts and plasma and people walk around in suits of power armour powered by a "TX-28 MicroFusion Pack" capable of generating "60,000 Watts to power the HiFlo hydraulic systems built into the frame of the suit".

Of course, to take away from that, I don't even want to mention the shuttle that the hubologists were building. Whether it worked or not I suppose is another question... There's even the question of fuel.

NachoMonkey · Post by **NachoMonkey** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 3:53 am

Hell I got a novel idea, how bout we DONT put vehicles in FO3 instead ?, the car was a nice toy in FO2 but it wasnt really nessessary, the walking in FO1 made the game much more difficult which added to the realism, remember, FO is an RPG, not "uncle enclaves off road challenge"

Mutateman · Post by **Mutateman** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 6:34 am

NachoMonkey wrote:Hell I got a novel idea, how bout we DONT put vehicles in FO3 instead ?, the car was a nice toy in FO2 but it wasnt really nessessary, the walking in FO1 made the game much more difficult which added to the realism, remember, FO is an RPG, not "uncle enclaves off road challenge"

Okay, I just have to ask this...

How did walking in FO1 make the game more difficult? If you are refering to the amount of random encounters, then I can't really see that as adding to the difficulty, because, unless I headed west of V13, I never ran into anything I couldn't beat with just the 10mm pistol.

Could just be me, though.

Silver · Post by **Silver** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 11:07 am

Saint_Proverbius wrote:
Silver wrote:Points is, you don't need Diesel, Gas, or whatever you get @ a gas station to get something driving. Just get some cow shit and alcohol, try it out a bit and your moving .
Okay, tell me when you've gotten your car to run on cow shit, seeing as how it's so easy to do, and I'll concede the point. That is, YOU do it, not link to a website where someone else has done it. You can even start with a working car, not hundreds of cars that have been sitting around, rusting away for over a century.

The cow shit was a joke (doh). And all you talk about is a 'car'. Why the hell not an APC? Why not just molestate < any type of vehicle > and get out the engine? A normal car engine is designed to take etc. petrol, diesel - whatever. Which would make it harder to get it to run an alternative fuel. It's parts are to delicate or could possibly not cope with the extreme RPM's, temperatures and chemical substances.

Like I said before; my nations tanks could drive on 'dried peat'. Enough engine types around to get one running. I'll bet ya the BoS or any other organized group had enough resources, knowledge & experienced technical people to get a engine running, and refining
the combustion process.

Let's just leave it at this, cause this is getting too offtopic & flamy. If you don't agree with me, fine - that would be your opinion and this is mine.

axelgreese · Post by **axelgreese** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 7:18 pm

Silver wrote:Like I said before; my nations tanks could drive on 'dried peat'. Enough engine types around to get one running. I'll bet ya the BoS or any other organized group had enough resources, knowledge & experienced technical people to get a engine running, and refining
the combustion process.

hmm..

Q. Power Armor was designed to replace the tank, so would that include the tank's mobility?

Post by **DarkUnderlord** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:53 am

Mutateman wrote:How did walking in FO1 make the game more difficult?

You'd have to make the comparison to Fallout 2. In Fallout 2, you walk down from Arroyo to San Francisco in metal armour and an approx level 7 character and you encounter a lot of encounters. Now get the car and do the same thing. You get a lot less.

Mutateman wrote:If you are refering to the amount of random encounters, then I can't really see that as adding to the difficulty, because, unless I headed west of V13, I never ran into anything I couldn't beat with just the 10mm pistol.

Note the "unless I headed West" part of your statement. Everything east was easy for a reason. Same as everything up North in FO2 is easy for a reason. Namely so that your lame arse easy character can beat them.

Ever beat 10 deathclaws outside of San Fran with just a 10 mm pistol and a level 7 char? Nope, didn't think so...

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 5:38 am

Silver wrote:The cow shit was a joke (doh).

Well, here's the thing about methane. Say you were harvesting methane for fuel. Do you think you'd be inclined to make a car with it or something like lights? Or perhaps using it for stoves and other cooking appliances?

Remember, there's not a hell of a lot of vegatation in the world, so wood for cooking wouldn't be nearly as practical as a methane stove. Getting up methane for street lights to make raider attacks and crime at night would also be a good idea, since you have to focus on the little things like protecting your own skin.

Even if your town managed to have a generator from a vault, there'd still be issues with load on such a thing. After all, vaults were expected to be fairly temporary and only in use for ten years at a time. That generator's probably been jury rigged a few times already. Furthermore, vaults also has secondary power systems, like geothermal power, which certainly isn't portable.

Even if you managed to get a working ICE running on methane, rapid transit wouldn't be Priority Number One. It's a wasteland, and the BASIC NEEDS PRINCIPLE is what you're working on here.

And all you talk about is a 'car'. Why the hell not an APC? Why not just molestate < any type of vehicle > and get out the engine?

Oh yeah, I forgot.. The belts, gaskets, hoses, metals, and every other component of vehicles-not-cars are magic and therefore impervious to entropy.

Carib · Post by **Carib** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:50 am

Vehciles would be limited I suppose. Hmm, the good ol' Corvega, a hummer, all with the their specfic terrain and carry perks.

For example, a car that can hold five passengers will only hold four of your party members.

Lunchmeat · Post by **Lunchmeat** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 8:44 am

17 years or so before the Great War, fossil fuels were too limited to use in vehicles. This lead to the development of fusion power a few years after that. That gives us 10-15 years where fusion powered vehicles should be in production. Based on this I don't think fusion powered vehicles would be as extremely rare as they're being made out to be.

Rubber itself is not a problem, a commonly used tile in the desert was an old tire wiht some dried grass growing by it. The difficulty would be working the rubber into a useable shape.

Laser technology, plasma technology, power armor running on 100 year fusion battery. All this survived. And sure maybe a working car didn't, but plans for one doubtlessly did. And if the BOS can construct Laser pistols presumably from scratch, they can definitely create some type of experimental vehicle.

Now I won't argue that there should or shouldn't be cars in FO3. I will argue that it would be possible for an organization like the BOS to create some type of motorized vehicle. The supplies are out there somewhere. And since the nature of the BOS is to preserve old technology and expand on it, I don't find the idea that far-fetched. Vehicles are possible. I don't give a rat's ass if they're in FO3, but the possibility is there.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 11:17 am

Lunchmeat wrote:17 years or so before the Great War, fossil fuels were too limited to use in vehicles. This lead to the development of fusion power a few years after that. That gives us 10-15 years where fusion powered vehicles should be in production. Based on this I don't think fusion powered vehicles would be as extremely rare as they're being made out to be.

AFAIK, Fusion cars were not mass produced in the same manner as fossil fuel driven cars because they were very expensive for the average consumer. Even if there were a reasonable amount of them in the USA, only a few of them survived the Great War. Imagine the blasts, the heat, the extreme conditions and the time these cars would have to survive to be at least in a repairable shape by the time humans begin to repopulate the earth. The earth was wiped clean of life, I bet that was the case for most machinery too.

Laser technology, plasma technology, power armor running on 100 year fusion battery. All this survived. And sure maybe a working car didn't, but plans for one doubtlessly did. And if the BOS can construct Laser pistols presumably from scratch, they can definitely create some type of experimental vehicle.

I'd assume most of them were destroyed in the Great War too. In any case, energy cells, fusion batteries etc. should be very rare in the wastelands and I doubt they're re-loadable. That's another reason why there isn't many cars in Fallout, the fuel is simply too expensive and rare. Most people don't move around are wastes either, except for the caravans and merchants. The need of cars is minimal since most communities are small and enclosed.

Carib · Post by **Carib** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 5:13 pm

And as for cars? Would it be like FO2 where you had one... Becauses intropducing a lot of vehicles can cause a tad problem.

I mean, how many vehicles are we looking at?

Corvega Highwayman (Sports car)
Hummer (Rugged and effieicent)
Scouter (Fast, but not very roomy)
Bus (Very roomy, but slower)

The List goes on....

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 6:35 pm

Well according to MCA there would be old tractors, taxis, buses, snowplows, construction equipment and even old steamtrucks available, but on the other hand, MCA can be a moron sometimes.

Carib · Post by **Carib** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:08 am

So true...

Well remians to be seen, cause no matter what we say, Interplay will go on... They have a bad habit of not listening to fans.

Look at FBOS as a result. A slap right in our fucking faces.