Liberalism in America

Icabod · Post by **Icabod** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:30 pm

Nuclear Gandhi wrote:More like a FSDFSDFSING stupid statement. Libertarians want to get rid of income tax, social security, and health care. HOW again is this Socialism? They are for free enterprise if you're wondering...

Get rid of? The Libertarians want to make social security and health insurance cheap enough that even the poorest can afford it. A government where everyone is putting enough effort in that it doesn't require income tax is exactly what socialism is about.

Let me give you some quotes, this one is from the libertarian home page:

http://www.lp.org/issues/cut-taxes.html wrote:"But the fact is, every service supplied by the government can be provided better and cheaper by private business."

"Libertarians believe that if government's role were limited to protecting our lives, rights and property, then America would prosper and thrive as never before. Then the federal government could concentrate on protecting our Constitutional rights and defending us from foreign attack. A federal government that did only those two things, could do them better and at a small fraction of the cost."

Contrasted with these, proud socialist ideals:

http://home.vicnet.net.au/~dmcm/ wrote:"The personally empowering and cooperative nature of socialist ownership underpins similar changes in other aspects of life. Socialism means far healthier individuals and human relationships. It means full participation by each individual in the intellectual, cultural and political life of society."

"At the same time it is individual because workers are no longer a 'collective' mob of alienated non-owners employed by a minority of owners. Work becomes a free and self-affirming activity for each worker and they receive the full fruits of their labor. The capitalists and their servants no longer control production nor grow rich from other's toil. Everybody is an owner. Socialism is genuine free enterprise."

These are both solutions to the idea of a government babying the general populace, they both think that if the power and responsibility was distributed evenly, things could work better. They both want to free society from the "big brother" government.

So, in effect you have proven my point for me, of course the Libertarians are like Socialists. They want to take the burden off of the common man and break down the stilts that corporations and our own government has been elevated on for so long.

What I meant by "unorganised socialism" is that our countries population has been spoiled, Libertarians want to give more power to the every day citizen. Most people in America could simply not handle it, Americans are so used to crying on the man that they could not rise up and take that responsibility of managing their own business and general welfare. A "free society" requires every single person to understand and accept power and responsibility. Realistically this is not possible for Americans, at least not any time soon.

And the only "fuck tiw" is someone who thinks we should put a drug dealer to death if someone ODs on his/her product.

http://www.lp.org/issues/lp-oss.html

Doyle · Post by **Doyle** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:42 pm

Icabod is proof that even something written in plain english can be twisted and distorted to mean almost anything you want.

Icabod · Post by **Icabod** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 8:54 pm

Doyle wrote:Icabod is proof that even something written in plain english can be twisted and distorted to mean almost anything you want.

I don't know if I'd believe that coming from someone with "Literacy is overrated." in their sig.

The biggest problem if have with the libertarians is that they try so hard for something good, and yet in the big picture it is impossible with the state of the general populace in America. The comparison that I made to the anarchists is accurate too, they will eventually be an endangered species as the worldwide political climate heats up.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:00 pm

I don't know if I'd believe that coming from someone with 2 severed heads of a MINORITY in their avatar.

Doyle · Post by **Doyle** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:00 pm

Icabod wrote:I don't know if I'd believe that coming from someone with "Literacy is overrated." in their sig.

Actually, there's only one 'r'. That's the joke, see.

Icabod · Post by **Icabod** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:05 pm

Megatron wrote:I don't know if I'd believe that coming from someone with 2 severed heads of a MINORITY in their avatar.

It's from one of my favorite computer games: http://myth.bungie.org

I can see your trying to turn me into another "syko" wannabe, I don't really care because I've said my piece, agree or no.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 9:09 pm

not really, you just made a dumb point about sigs and avatars? agree or no!

Icabod · Post by **Icabod** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:06 pm

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=overated

That's my point about sigs dental boy. I didn't say anything about avatars... oops tee-hee.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:24 pm

dental?

is that what you call it these days?

I think the sig is called IRONING get used to it bucko!!!

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:19 am

I don't think the Libertarians are going to die off any time soon, in fact they're growing, more and more people are being elected from the Libertarian party, and all it really takes is to get a couple of those guys together and have them fight off some Big Brother action, like the Patriot Act. Down in Southeast Washington a couple of people in a town got together and said they weren't going to go along with the Patriot Act and if any government official tried to come in to look at someone's files they will tell them to eat it. I think within the next 20 years the Libertarians will have a viable candidate for president, and he will win.

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:12 am

President? Not likely. Senator? Maybe. Governer? Fuck, I ain't even going there.

the guardian · Post by **the guardian** » Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:11 pm

Megatron wrote:

The act shown above is called a "fish hook", it has nothing to do with dental surgery, and is more of a disgusting sexual act where you pull the cheeks of a girl(or a guy) backwards using your fingers(can be performed with the legs as well), as they were a fish caught in a hook.

Incidently, that white stuff you're seeing there sperm, possibly from 5 different men.

Amazing what some people would do for money. Incredible expression, though.

Anyhow, UR STOOPUD.

Doyle · Post by **Doyle** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 6:11 am

Icabod wrote:http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=overated

It's not really a difficult joke to understand. See, the word is intentionally misspelled because I think literacy is overrated and therefore can't read.

Icabod · Post by **Icabod** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:27 am

It's not all that difficult to let this thread die either, I can see all the intellectual conversation here has been exhausted already. :roll:

Radoteur · Post by **Radoteur** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:34 am

Am I late?

Your view on how liberal or conservative anything is relative. If you are a communist, everything in America is going to see ultra-right wing. Think of it like an accent. You'll be able to tell if someone has a strong accent if it's much different than yours. If they have the same accent as you, it'll seem the same. It'll seem normal.

About dogs being citizens, I'm all for that, if it will stop us from "aborting fetuses." If we can make dogs citizens, then by all means an unborn baby should easily make the grade. The arguements for abortion usually mention that an unborn baby isn't human, in the same way that a seed isn't a tree. I'm probably not doing it justice, though.

Taking away our guns is the first step in subjugating a people. Take away the people's means to fight back, then take away the will to fight.

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:04 pm

You sound like a tyrant. I'm not saying you are, but you want to take away people's liberties.

And Dogs aren't humans. Why are extreemist animal rights people always trying to turn animals into humans. You guys love yourselves too much. If it were me as ruler, I would give full rights to the people and protect them to the death.

the guardian · Post by **the guardian** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 6:00 pm

Then by golly, we should make you ruler ASAP!

Icabod · Post by **Icabod** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 7:29 pm

Apollo wrote:You sound like a tyrant. I'm not saying you are, but you want to take away people's liberties.

And Dogs aren't humans. Why are extreemist animal rights people always trying to turn animals into humans. You guys love yourselves too much. If it were me as ruler, I would give full rights to the people and protect them to the death.

He meant that if dogs became citizens babies would certainly have to be held higher than them. It was dripping with sarcasm, but he made his point about the abortion thing.

Radoteur wrote: Your view on how liberal or conservative anything is relative. If you are a communist, everything in America is going to see ultra-right wing. Think of it like an accent. You'll be able to tell if someone has a strong accent if it's much different than yours. If they have the same accent as you, it'll seem the same. It'll seem normal.

And I agree with this as well, lots of things are relative, but to stay sane we have to have concrete opinions, criticisms and the will to follow through on them. We can't be wishy washy all the time or someone with enough power is going to take the US for their own someday. Think "Escape from Newyork".

I won't even get into the gun thing here, there's two other threads about that already.

Apollo · Post by **Apollo** » Mon Oct 20, 2003 9:55 pm

I would love to be ruler guardian thank you for your suggestion, as for the dog thing, i know it was sarcasm, i brought the damn thing up. but yeah it is funny how people actually want that to happen. for real. as for abortion, i cant say whether im for it or against, thats up to a woman to decide. (with that, my last sentence will most likely invite calling me a woman, so in advance to anyone who thinks it, ..."to a woman to decide, like _enter your name here_"...)

Wolfman Walt · Post by **Wolfman Walt** » Tue Oct 21, 2003 12:16 am

the guardian wrote: Amazing what some people would do for money. Incredible expression, though.

It looks abit forced. If you look, two of the fingers are pushing up her top eyelids. It looks for some reason that he has four fingers. Regardless, it is a pretty itneresting expression.

Duck and Cover

Liberalism in America

Too much liberalism in America?