The end has arrived

Red · Post by **Red** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:39 pm

FUCK YOU! YOU'RE DUMB! LISTEN TO ME! YOU'RE WRONG! YOU'RE BEING SEXIST! I'M WRITE! FUCK INTERPLAY! BLAH! LISTEN TO ME! WHY AREN'T YOU LISTENING TO ME! AREN'T YOU BEING RACIST! HEY! I'M RIGHT HERE! BLAH! BLAH! INTERPLAY SHOULD DIE!

bloodbathmaster2 · Post by **bloodbathmaster2** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:53 pm

Aw fuck. Hell's frozen over already.

Grey_Ghost · Post by **Grey_Ghost** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 12:43 am

Lucasarts goes through tons of procedures rejecting ideas that don't fit in with the SW universe.

I hope this is right for other Star Wars game, but I can tell you with absolute certainty that "Star Wars Galaxies" took the EU and Continuity and beat it to a bloody pulp. Then proceeded to bury it 66 feet under in a concrete/steel reinforced bunker, which is completely sealed off.

Grey_Ghost

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:41 am

Briareus wrote:I've never said that people don't have a right to their opinion. I've also never said that you can't express it on the boards. What I'm saying is that posts like these (i.e, well written, makes good arguments, and refrains from personal attacks on developers) get lost in the sea of bile that the few rabid fans vomit forth. As such, it IS the fault of these rabid fans that devs started ignoring everyone.

Horseshit, son. Absolute, Grade-C horseshit. They were never going to listen in the first place. They might have placated a few, but they weren't listenning nor were they even interested in two way communication. From the start, they were Piss off, Fallout fans! We're making this crap as crappy as we like! And I can even cite examples of where people from the Fallout community, even the less rabid of the bunch, have tried to get a dialogue going and were turned down.

And the FUCK YOU, CHUCK! guys weren't the ones that were banned for the most part. The ones that were banned were the ones who did make the long, rational posts. The arguments that were several pages long, with examples and were well written. As far as I can see, the FUCK YOU, IPLY! guys were basically left so you guys could have something to point to about how ill behaved Fallout fans were after the fact.

Whether that's true or not is irrelevant. It was posted on the main news page and asked for DAC readers to call him and let him know what you thought.

I heard we filled up his voice mail in just a few hours, too. But hey, God forbid Chucky get direct input from the fan base of the license he's using to make his game, right? Oh no! That would be HELLAH BAD!

chrisbeddoes · Post by **chrisbeddoes** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:16 am

Fallout is not just a game or a license.

It is an epic setting a work of art .

It is as important as the Lord of the Rings or as
Homer works or as Shakespeare .

Imagine what would happen if a game company took the Lord of the Rings licence and say made Legolas a sex maniac half orc .

What would the fans say ?

Post by **DarkUnderlord** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:23 am

Briareus wrote:What I'm saying is that posts like these (i.e, well written, makes good arguments, and refrains from personal attacks on developers) get lost in the sea of bile that the few rabid fans vomit forth.

No, well-written posts like that get lost when people like Saint_Proverbius and Co get banned. So, why was Saint_Proverbius banned? Better yet, gimme a reason why most of the Fallout community's good writers were banned. Seriously, Chucky lost ALL credibility when shit like that started. IPLY didn't ditch the retards (like DoomSayer, who's said nothing reasonable in all his posts). No, they deleted and banned all the people who made well-written posts.

Then we have the NMA interview. Chucky laughingly says he's talked to the community. WHEN? Has ANY Fallout site been approached? All we had were the leaked "Fallout Fantasy Facts(TM)". Not once did we get Chucky popping in and saying "Hi, so you guys have heard the leak about my game. Well let me tell you about it..." No, we get a NEWS RELEASE which must've been written by a complete retard (pirates?). Did we get anything before that? Nope. Any of the community stuff BiS are doing with Van Bueuren? Nope. We get a news release as our first confirmation that WE WERE RIGHT. Then, in an effort to calm things down, Odin makes a request for an interview. What happens? Chucky replies with a "No thanks we don't care about you LOL!". Gee, what a way to talk to the community huh? Marweas should take his lessons from you guys!

Killy said it first. I'll say it again. When that Fallout Fantasy shit came out, we were all appalled, but the claims were denied, denied, denied by IPLY. What happens? Oh, we find out that we were right. Again. We find out that yet again, instead of a Fallout 3, they're making another spin-off. Hey, you know what's even better? The only reason you guys are working on FO3 right now is because INTERPLAY FUCKED UP and you lost your Baldur's Gate PC license. OOPS! There goes Jefferson...

Hell, the BG RPG fans aren't getting anymore BG anymore, except for the console action-puzzle-adventure games. I bet they're happy. Think about how happy we'll be when you stop PC RPG Fallout games and just make Fallout Console stuff. We'll be real happy, I'm sure.

Given your history at fucking up, tell me why we should trust you at all?

EvoG wrote:Curious...you guys are saying that this game is 'shit', yet no one has played it.

Curious... some of us are saying that Phoenix will be great, yet none of us have played it yet. Is a great merely because we have a developer exciting us all by saying how great the game is? Is it great merely because it's a post-apocalyptic game? What if the game is actually a pile of shit (assume for a minute that we like RPGs)? Hell, we haven't even seen any screenshots on it yet. What if the game wasn't post-apocalyptic? Is it still 'great' arbitrarily just because?

Truth be told, though its fun to read about all your great Phoenix stuff, I have no real feelings about the game. If you want the game to be a success, and your company to succeed in combination with the bold proclaimation that you will make more RPG games and don't want to make non-revolutionary games, then why bother saying anything at all? Why not just shut the hell up and get on with making the thing? Why not release a screenshot and actually show you've got something? Better yet, why not just go back and play FO1 again. Hell, that was revolutiuonary when it came out.

Killy, I think there's a forum you should delete...

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:28 am

DarkUnderlord wrote:Killy, I think there's a forum you should delete...

Yeah, its called DaC... :roll: In fact...I'll ask him myself.

Tee hee, are your snide remarks for the sake of your stand-up audience or are you just upset that you're not in the industry and just have a sore spot for developers; will never have a chance to make the games(sorry...'Game'=Fallout) you so deseperately love to play?

Every time I reply you need to say something about my game? Yikes, quit sweating me and get over it bro.

Cheers

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:42 am

well this was certainly an exercise in futility. DarkUndies, Steve's easy... just ask him for screenshots or a website...

Steve, STFU. Take it from me, if you don't like posting with the chuckleheads at DAC -- don't post here.

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:44 am

oh and Chad, good luck on FO3. After talking with JE I think you guys are doing the best you can to please everyone and make your own mark on the universe. A balance that the FOBOS team threw out the window and drew our ire.

Post by **DarkUnderlord** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:28 am

EvoG wrote:Tee hee, are your snide remarks for the sake of your stand-up audience or are you just upset that you're not in the industry?

No, that remark was quite simple. Every time someone says:
This game is a piece of shit.

The reply is: BUT YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YET!!

Yet whenever someone says:
This game is good, I think I'll like it.

No-one says jack. Odd that, don't you think? Seems we can determine a great game from screenshots, story snippits, numerous interviews with the developers, yet more screenshots, other games using the same engine, yet more story snippits, two trailers, several game-play movies and an FAQ. Yet we can't, with the same information, determine if a game is going to suck.

Funny about that.

EvoG wrote:Every time I reply you need to say something about my game?

Mainly because every-time you talk, you're saying (or in some cases, inferring) how great, how much better or how revolutionary your own game is. Yet so far, all we've had is talk and no show. You can't even deliver a simple screenshot and we're now several months after you said you could.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:05 am

DarkUnderlord wrote:No, that remark was quite simple. Every time someone says:
This game is a piece of shit.

The reply is: BUT YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YET!!

Yet whenever someone says:
This game is good, I think I'll like it.

No-one says jack. Odd that, don't you think?

No, not at all, cuz all I've been hearing about FOBOS is that it blows mainly because it rapes the Fallout canon, but not for anything tangible. When people say a game looks great, I tend to agree if indeed it does look great and sound like it could be fun to play. 'Truth be told', I didn't hear anything necessarily un-fun about FOBOS, other than its an action game and most people here don't play action games.

DarkUnderlord wrote:Funny about that.

EvoG wrote:Every time I reply you need to say something about my game?
Mainly because every-time you talk, you're saying (or in some cases, inferring) how great, how much better or how revolutionary your own game is. Yet so far, all we've had is talk and no show. You can't even deliver a simple screenshot and we're now several months after you said you could.

I've said nothing along those lines bro ( nor inferred ) so thats all in your head, really. Show me the last place I said "my game rocks way more than this POS, so I don't know why you guys should bother looking at anything else BUT Projekt FeeniX!" I may have said my game looks awesome, but thats my opinion as a gamer, and I'm very happy with the results thus far. Oh well.

Also, show me where I said my game was 'revolutionary'. At any length, all I've gone on to say is that I want to try damn hard to try to take things as they are now in rpg's and try to improve upon them or at least behave in a new way. In fact, I've always qualified those claims with insight to the design I'm implementing, so at least I back up my designs with tangible information for you guys to participate in.

Otherwise, I've never boasted how great my game is or how wonderful a game designer I am, as that would be ludicrous at this stage, dontcha think?

You seriously need to read AND understand what you read before jumping to your inaccurate and overdeveloped conclusions.

Its just screenshots for the love of god.

Cheers

Post by **DarkUnderlord** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:49 am

EvoG wrote:No, not at all, cuz all I've been hearing about FOBOS is that it blows mainly because it rapes the Fallout canon, but not for anything tangible.

So if a game plays reasonably well (not hard considering the action genre. How hard is it really to stuff up an action-shooter?) but the graphics look shit, the story sucks and it's over-done with hookers, then it's not a pile of shit? Uhuh.

EvoG wrote:I didn't hear anything necessarily un-fun about FOBOS, other than its an action game and most people here don't play action games.

No, we NEVER play action games here. :roll:

EvoG wrote:I've said nothing along those lines bro ( nor inferred ) so thats all in your head, really. Show me the last place I said "my game rocks way more than this POS, so I don't know why you guys should bother looking at anything else BUT Projekt FeeniX!"

Okay:

http://www.duckandcover.net/forums/view ... 459#141459

EvoG wrote:
POOPERSCOOPER wrote:This game [The Fall] somehow reminds me of PROJECT PHEONIX.
Hehe, god could you imagine? I'd just stop now if that was the case.

Project Phoenix Graphics = Better than The Fall. Have we seen anything to back this up? Oh, I'm sure there's some qualified claims with insight to those designs floating about somewhere... or am I inferring too much?

http://www.duckandcover.net/forums/view ... 970#138970

EvoG wrote:To be that confident your game [HL2] is coming out on THAT date is being pretty telling. They easily could have had 80% of the game done and merely needed to polish the art and balance and bug test, and just found the balance/bug portion took a little longer. Point is, you don't go from "we're shipping on the 30th for sure!" to "um, we don't know now when and it could be another year".

Kind of like going from "screenshots this weekend" to "um, screenshots?".
(I threw this one in just for fun.)

http://www.duckandcover.net/forums/view ... 468#136468

EvoG wrote:Out of all the games in the world over the past twenty years that have claimed they have this amazing AI and consistently failed to deliver, what info do you have that none of us have that Stalker is finally 'It'?? Because they said so?

But EvoG, you haven't played it... By the way, what kind of info do we have that anything in Phoenix is worth more than a sack of shit? What, because you've qualified it with some big words and deep thinking?

http://www.duckandcover.net/forums/view ... 578#136578

EvoG wrote:Thats what I'm asking...What innovation? Every developer has at one point said their AI was innovative. What makes you believe these guys when they say the exact same thing as the others, and the others failed to deliver anything innovative on any level? Seriously..."world controller AI" or "uber AI of thinking" or whatever they want to call it...whats different about GSC saying it or Developer X saying it? GSC has no track record making a game like this...Valve clearly does, and not just any game, but considered by many THE best fps ever made ( if not best game in some camps ). GSC is an expert in AI all of a sudden because they said so? Its going to be good AI cuz they said so? I've played HL as did all of you probably, so we have a very good idea of what HL2 is going to be like.

How good is EvoG's AI I wonder? Let's ask him...

http://www.duckandcover.net/forums/view ... 408#136408

EvoG wrote:As for you AI comment...um, okay. I wouldn't be going on about chaos and randomness as much as much as I would about consistent AI behaviour and repsonse to stimuli...believeable human behaviour. First off you're not going to get a 10 fold increase in replayablility, IF you attribute that to just AI, because the AI is only going to go so deep. The fuzzy logic will amount to ( Random Number : Go Here : See Player : Player Good/Evil? : Am I hurt? : Do I have enough ammo? : Fight ). Due to the fact that you may cross paths at different points in the game or may or may not fight the same guy in another game does not make for a deep simulation. For the AI in phoenix, I'm basing my goals for the NPC's on needs and wants, and then going through a tree of decisions, using internalilzation and sight and sound stimuli. If I make the AI's visible choice too ambiguous, then he can do all the thinking in the world...the player isn't going to see it. This is where 'player stimuli' comes in. Now I have to make those same choices, but reflecting the context of what is going on in the game world, which includes, say, the player walking into a room with his weapon drawn, and clearly have the NPC respond in a way the player can clearly understand. Same goes for combat. As with HL and Theif, you want to see the NPC drawing reasonable conclusions, not based on chaos, but based on stimuli and rational thought. When he does something you think you would do, then the AI has demonstrated a level of believable human intelligence. Thief had actually very simplistic AI, and took simple AI decisions and within context and displayed a broad enough response to make it feel like it was thinking. ( Noise in Range : Say "Is anybody there?" : Walk to Noise : Play LOOK AROUND CAREFULLY animation ).

Wow. That's pretty good AI in Phoenix. You've really qualified it with lots of deep thought. If I'm not mistaken, you're comparing it with another game there. Nice work.

Funny thing is though EvoG, aren't you some kind of artist? I mean, what game qualifications do you have? Ever made one before? You've said a couple of times that you're an art-house trying to become a games company. I mean really, what kind of passed experience do you guys have to show that you can actually pull any of this off?

More to the point, when are you going to stop talking out of your arse about game design and actually show something? You're not the world's greatest game developer by any account I know of. Yet here you are with "Phoenix AI is better than Stalker!" and "They've never made a game before, so they must suck!". Funny, where's your track record?

EvoG wrote:Otherwise, I've never boasted how great my game is or how wonderful a game designer I am, as that would be ludicrous at this stage, dontcha think?

Yes, very ludicrous, oh greatest game designer of them all with no track record, but who willingly bags another company because they have no track record.

EvoG wrote:You seriously need to read AND understand what you read before jumping to your inaccurate and overdeveloped conclusions.

According to various IRC conversations I've had, I'm not the only one thinking this. Mayhap you should re-think what you're saying? Might be you're just giving off the wrong impression.

EvoG wrote:Its just screenshots for the love of god.

Exactly. Such a simple thing, and yet already your track record shows that you fail to deliver.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:31 am

Haha!

You're kidding right!?

You tried so hard to pull a 'Saint' on me with all your fancy anal micro quoting and "witty remarks" and STILL failed to show anything. At least Saint_P is able to knock other posts down with solid comebacks and observations(sometimes. Hi Saint!

). Here I'm dumbfounded as to how hard you tried just to get nothing. Here I'll have him contact you to give you some pointers and maybe one day you can be like him too!

Here lets go over them quickly :

The Fall's Graphics :

Oops! You got me! How predictable you would chose this one since I just said it like a week ago. I was waiting for you to pull this one and KNEW it was going to be the crux of your argument. Yeah, fine, ya got me...but shit I'm sorry, the game just ain't perty. *shrugs*

About AI :

Where was I boasting or inferring anything homes!!?? I made an observation that AI historically has FAILED to deliver time and time again. Phoenix could fail as well! SO!!?? Never said I roX0rd with my AI! Never said my AI was better than in anyone elses game! All I did was go on to explain some rather RUDIMENTARY AI concepts and actually focus on the concept of AI behaviour the player can read, and compared the concept to Half Life and Thief(just to help illustrate the example since most people played those games). Never said I was BETTER than Half Life or Thief! Never said I was even AS GOOD as those games. Just merely discussed what I'd like to see in Phoenix. SO WHAT!?? *shrugs*

About my History/Qualifications :

Sure of course we're an art house right now. Of course we have to prove ourselves as game developers. So what? This isn't a big seKrat. I told ALL of you guys from the begining, and time and time again that I'm a NEW developer with a wonderful opportunity to make a game I hope people really enjoy.

So?!!

Every developer at one time was new with ZERO games under their belts. I mean, Undies, you didn't think they just *POOF* had three shipped games automatically before they started their first one did you!? Tee Hee! Silly girl...awww wittle wundies is naive as well. Tsk tsk.

MOST developers, like me, started off being employees of other development houses and branched off on their own to chase their own dreams and visions. So what!? I'm not ashamed of the fact I haven't shipped my own game yet. Thats not even a bad thing. I'm learning as I go along and I'm just happy I can do it. Why not ask how many developers/aritists/whatever working for a big companies would LOVE the opportunity to be able to try and make a game by themselves for the glory of saying they made it and only having to answer to themselves, guide their vision and reap the rewards and benefits of such an entrepreneurial endeavour!?

So far, my qualifications are like any small developer that broke off from a larger company to start their own biz...I worked on quite a few AAA(and not so triple A) titles over the past seven years and have been lead artist on most and have contracted around the industry. Doesn't really matter I guess cuz I didn't ship my OWN game yet huh? :roll:

(These are my favorite quickies)

Where did I say my AI was better than Stalkers!? HA! I DIDN'T!

Where did I say they suck!? I DIDN'T! D'OH!

Where did I EVER say I was the greatest game developer ever!? OH! I DIDN'T SAY THAT EITHER!! I thought it was your job to prove I said this!! H4H4 N3rD!!

How can you say something is ludicrous when I JUST SAID IT WAS 'LUDICROUS'?? Didn't I just SAY that!? *slaps forehead* Brilliant!

IRC? Hearsay. I've been on IRC like 3 times in my life, each time for like 10 minutes having some fun answering a few questions, but hardly 'boasting' about me or my game. Um, k? Evidence? Thats some amazing sleuthing there detective.

This has been fucking lame bro and you have some issues, weirdo. CYA!!

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:13 am

I'm looking forward to project:feenix because of the dev diary thingys and the dev guy seems alright?

I'm not looking to fobos as an action game because:
of bad graphics
of the few enemys on the screen at a time (in an action game)
of the metal soundtrack
of the auto-aim feature in an action game
of the stereotypes
of the dumb sexism and the stupidity of the costumes (or how little of them there are?)
of how chuck keeps prattling on about how this game wasn't made for the fan-base, so why should I like it if the dev won't think I'd even like it?
of the treatment of the fans and the original game
it just looks stupid and predictable, there's a lot of better action games that look a lot better than this.

There's some reasons why I don't like it beside it being related to fallout. Since it has fallouts name on it, as a fan of the original I feel I need to troll around on the interplay boards and bitch and moan. People complain every day about things they have no effect on, so what's the problem with it?

PipBoy2k · Post by **PipBoy2k** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:39 am

FOBOS intended audience is worthless

They have no experience, they missed out on good times, they do not know real action games.

it is a game for dumasses, exactly intended for the kind of people who ruined CS and now epitomize the stereotypical CS gamer.. too bad these kiddies probably have never heard even of CS, I really bet that they will be that ignorant.

This game looks like it takes NO skill, has a simplistic environment, and NO story.. it is just mindless random figures on the screen, to while away time.. if you are going to steal people's lives away do so with class and with a sincere heart

NOT only is FOBOS's audience such a piece of shit, and consequently FOBOS a piece of shit, BUT it rapes a truly excellent and rare treasure of a universe, the Fallout universe, iT RAPES IT AND LEAVES IT OUT TO DIE, SHAMED, WITH NONE TO SPEAK FOR IT *

*except Iply press releases, haha - oh how the people will be deceived, for there are many ignorant, however good people they might otherwise be THE DAMAGE IS DONE

Briareus · Post by **Briareus** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:56 pm

Menno wrote:But look what happened with Star Wars? Ask any SW fan, and you'll see that most hate the new films. If you factor in that he never allowed anyone to mess around with what happened prior to Episode 4, whatever George Lucas wrote was official canon.

Menno wrote:If FOBOS took place during a period which wasn't specified in the original Fallout universe, it wouldn't have been a problem.

Sorry, but I'm confused as these two concepts disagree with each other. Star Wars fans hate episodes 1 and 2 and they are cannon, so you stating that making FOBOS pre-Fallout 1 would make things okay doesn't pan out.

Menno wrote:Perhaps you can explain to me why I was banned for criticizing the game in the Fallout:BOS boards, since I didn't curse or call them stupid.

No, sorry since I'm not a mod there and not privy to the hows and whys let alone the whos and wheres.

Menno wrote:Maybe you guys can learn a thing or two from the Bioware boards. While I'm not the biggest fan of Bioware games, they routinely take part in major discussions (even when they get criticized and ripped by name-calling), and they don't go around deleting every thread that disagrees with their game. EVEN if it's bad criticism.

While I've never visited the Bioware boards, I've heard other people's opinions opinions regarding Bioware's thread closing policy that differs from yours. Perhaps you've just been lucky or visit different game boards or they're wrong?

Menno wrote:If you want to stereotype me as some loudmouth who curses everyone out just because I come here on these forums, be my guest. But if that's the case, I'm also free to stereotype all of Interplay as a bunch of idiots who don't know how to run a company, or make a game for that matter.

At what point did I stereotype you? In fact, I complimented a post of yours in this thread.

DarkUnderlord wrote:No, well-written posts like that get lost when people like Saint_Proverbius and Co get banned.

Oh, please. Saint is anything but. He may be able to calm down long enough to write a good post, but often his posts contained nothing more than a bitch session and jabs at Interplay or its employees and his news posts contain more yellow journalism than the Iraqi Minister of Information.

DarkUnderlord wrote:Then we have the NMA interview. Chucky laughingly says he's talked to the community. WHEN? Has ANY Fallout site been approached? All we had were the leaked "Fallout Fantasy Facts(TM)". Not once did we get Chucky popping in and saying "Hi, so you guys have heard the leak about my game. Well let me tell you about it..." No, we get a NEWS RELEASE which must've been written by a complete retard (pirates?). Did we get anything before that? Nope. Any of the community stuff BiS are doing with Van Bueuren? Nope. We get a news release as our first confirmation that WE WERE RIGHT. Then, in an effort to calm things down, Odin makes a request for an interview. What happens? Chucky replies with a "No thanks we don't care about you LOL!". Gee, what a way to talk to the community huh? Marweas should take his lessons from you guys!

Yes, because employees of a public company often talk about work product leaks on the interweb. Happens all the time.

And considering that Fallout Fantasy was the code name for LIONHEART I guess that means you guys were WRONG.

DarkUnderlord wrote:Hey, you know what's even better? The only reason you guys are working on FO3 right now is because INTERPLAY FUCKED UP and you lost your Baldur's Gate PC license. OOPS! There goes Jefferson...

FACT: Jefferson's cancellation only moved Van Buren's schedule up. So much for you being right that it's the only reason.

DarkUnderlord wrote:Given your history at fucking up, tell me why we should trust you at all?

If you don't trust us, why are you listening to anything we say or following the progress of a game you're not going to buy?

Killzig wrote:oh and Chad, good luck on FO3. After talking with JE I think you guys are doing the best you can to please everyone and make your own mark on the universe.

Thanks.

Megatron wrote:Since it has fallouts name on it, as a fan of the original I feel I need to troll around on the interplay boards and bitch and moan. People complain every day about things they have no effect on, so what's the problem with it?

The problem is that your bitching and moaning only adds to the sea of bile and offers nothing to a developer. You want to do it? Go right ahead. But don't be suprised when a developer starts ignoring people who appear to do nothing but bitch and moan.

Raymondo · Post by **Raymondo** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:59 pm

Wow attack of the game developers lets hope they donÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t go on strike or then weÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢ll all be fucked.

A world without game developers is like a Tv without any channels. :shock:

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 7:39 pm

A world without game developers is like a Tv without any channels.

Not really? A world without life on it is more like a tv without channels.

The problem is that your bitching and moaning only adds to the sea of bile and offers nothing to a developer. You want to do it? Go right ahead. But don't be suprised when a developer starts ignoring people who appear to do nothing but bitch and moan.

He ignores everyone anyway? Devs probably don't care much about forum politics, if they see a good idea posted by someone who hates the game they'd probably use it regardless. On the other hand you bitching about us moaning might make people ignore you? Do you care? LOL!

Briareus · Post by **Briareus** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:13 pm

Megatron wrote:Devs probably don't care much about forum politics, if they see a good idea posted by someone who hates the game they'd probably use it regardless.

Very true for most devs I'd think.

Megatron wrote:On the other hand you bitching about us moaning might make people ignore you? Do you care? LOL!

I don't think anyone is going to start ignoring me as you guys have shown that you pay lots and lots of attention to things you don't like. :p

And do I care that you're bitching? No and yes. No in that I believe that you're free to do whatever it is that you like. Yes in that I believe you are trying to communicate to the devs making a game you don't like and seem to be askying why they're ignoring you. I'm trying to tell you that.

Often a discussion between a dev and the end user is strained. This is due to a lot of factors, most notable of those is that each party is coming to the discussion from a different point of view and reference. The devs come to the table with the finished concept for the game in their heads, but can't always talk about everything that will be in the game. They've had dozens upon dozens of meetings about the game. They talk about it at lunch. They dream about it. They think about it in the shower. They've been doing this for about a year or more before the fans even hear about the game. Couple that with marketing restrictions and embellishments and you've got a picture that just isn't true. That's not to say they're lying, but the medium and the laws prevent a full discourse. This distorts any points they may try to make. The fans then interpret this flawed picture and try to apply it to their own concept of how they thought the game will be when it's done (which of course is different from the devs'). To be honest it takes a lot of faith on the part of the fans to take a dev at their word, especially considering that the work isn't even done yet and things may change - and often do.

So, not only do you have all that crap going on, but you've also got a developer who set out to make a game based on a setting you love for a target audience that isn't you. While I didn't follow every post from Chuck, I get the feeling that pretty early on he said that they were trying to reach a different audience. You are certainly entitled to feel disappointment that your setting won't be continued as you like, but what's the point of complaining any longer? At some point Chuck told you flat out that the game wasn't for you. Much like how the new Battlestar Galactica has totally changed the cannon from TOS. The fans were outraged. Okay. But being outraged isn't going ot change the new show is it? I think it's time to move on, really. You don't like FOBOS. You don't like the changes, or the art or the engine or the gameplay. Fine. Got it. The game wasn't designed for you. "Acknowledge and move on," is the best advice I can give you. Telling Chuck or anyone else to fuck off or saying that Interplay should die isn't going to do anything constructive*, and certainly isn't going to bring a PC Fallout 3 out any time sooner.

But like I said, you're free to do whatever you like. Just don't be suprised when they start ignoring all the bitching and moaning.

*Just remember that they're going to work on another game after FOBOS. Wouldn't you rather be able to talk to them instead of having them ignore you based on your** username?

**Not the individual you, the "you" that's reading this post now.

DJ SlamÃƒÂ¡k · Post by **DJ SlamÃƒÂ¡k** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:33 pm

Briareus wrote: And considering that Fallout Fantasy was the code name for LIONHEART I guess that means you guys were WRONG.

The codename may have been for Lionheart (and I'm actually willing to believe that was made up additionally to cover up the leak

), but the actual rumour fit FOBOS to the letter. Here's a good account on what went down and how.