Half life 2

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:03 am

You could also play HL2 over a few weeks and do some other stuff apart from computer gaming.

Koki · Post by **Koki** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 8:55 am

Mad Max RW wrote: Monthly fees are definitely going to happen. I give it a year. Steam will offer a regular free version, but they'll figure a way getting people to pay extra.

If that'll happen, I am SO getting not-so-legal version.

About installing game without 'net: You COULD borrow a modem and fly on 54kbit's

Burnov · Post by **Burnov** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 12:38 pm

That's correct. Idiots in the Half Life community like halflife2.net or even the official steampowered.com forums will claim you can install it on a computer with the internet, unlock HL2, burn a DVD, then copy everything to your gaming computer and it will work. They are dead wrong and haven't tried it themselves. Nobody has been able to get it working that way and a couple Valve employees confirmed it as an impossibility. Yet idiot fans will continue spreading false information.

This is where I have a fairly big problem with this kind of protection.

What if at some point I -don't- have an internet connection. I'm not so much of a hardcore fucking nerd that I will always have access to the internet no matter what.

So essentially if I wanted to reformat my pc and then reinstall a game that forced this kind of validation. I'd be screwed. Or if a group of my friends get together to play a game on a LAN where typically we have no internet connection. Let's say not everyone had the game pre-installed and authenticated. Again. We'd be screwed.

No. This is ridiculous behavior. I've said it before and I've said it again. This initiative will serve only to separate the hardcore nerds from the casual pc gamers, driving the latter further away. Not everyone has the luxury of time to wait around for bullshit like that. My time is valuable and I could be working up north in the next few months where I have only one week in town a month. So I'm supposed to wait and only get partial use of a product because they're implementing oppressive copy protection. Unless they're providing a massive discount for this inconvenience they can shove a large cactus up their ass.

Un fucking acceptable. It's ridiculous. If I were to pay good money to own a game and that's how a company treats me? Fuck that. I'd proudly defy a company in any way I could to subvert that kind of asshole marketing strategy.

If that'll happen, I am SO getting not-so-legal version.

Way ahead of you. Only I'm doing primarily on principle. Just to say I contributed in trivializing this kind of shitty treatment to legitimate owners.

Smiley · Post by **Smiley** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 2:52 pm

S4ur0n27 wrote:You could also play HL2 over a few weeks and do some other stuff apart from computer gaming.

Nah, games like HL2 are way too fast paced to play an hour a day.
Besides, I was getting annoyed by the story getting worse by the minute, so I wanted to get it over with.
Games like Fallout though, is something you could play for half an hour, and then stop again, and enjoy it equally each time. Besides you have all the time in the world for games like that.

Koki · Post by **Koki** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:40 pm

Sheeeet, Burnov, you won't get Ultima Online when you don't have 'net, right? So. They did it Steam-ish. They did online reg and wrote it on the box. If you don't have a 'net... well...

Lyfe is Lyfe

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:59 pm

What Koki said, except you could add a few insults in there.

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 11:26 pm

Except that you *can* actually play HL2 off-line, unlike UO - that's why they call it an MMORPG whatever. So, fuck you. [a few more insults here]

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 12:42 am

Well, it's written on the box you need internet, so don't buy it if you don't have internet, damn it. It's not that complicated. If you're too poor to have internet, you also should be too poor to buy video games.

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 1:15 am

On the box it says "Internet Connection Required" in the system requirements but nothing about Steam or how the internet is required for installation. A regular person who never heard of the game before, or is getting the game as a gift, will most likely assume the internet connection bit refers to multiplayer. The idea of it restricting singleplayer as well is completely ridiculous.

The box isn't clear about it. And there's no mention anywhere about Steam. You have to realize the majority of copies sold aren't long time fans who know everything about a game months before release. The casual gamer is the one getting screwed. And when they get screwed the developer gets hit hard, then the game community is routinely fucked up the ass further down the road by the developer.

And not everybody has broadband connection. Unlocking the retail version of HL2 can take 9 hours on a dialup.

Koki · Post by **Koki** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:20 am

That depends already. Not on every game-box they write 'Internet connection REQUIRED to install the game'. Hell, I don't remember seein warning like that at Ultima's box. So if you see writing like that, one should become curious. I would.
Also, in the store I was buying HL2, I had: Original warning, second warning on the box(By distributor), and third warning standing near the shelf(By shop). Not bad.
Last think - what is this 'casual gamer' you speak of, who don't know what Half Life 2 is?

Burnov · Post by **Burnov** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:09 pm

You can play Halflife 2 offline once you've validated your copy. So the fact that you can play it offline is negligible as you still need an internet connection to authenticate.

It's not so much the point that it requires the internet. It's the issue of the legitimacy behind such a requirement. Again. To someone who has a lot of time to waste on games this isn't a problem. Hence my comparison between casual gamers and the other group.

Furthermore broadband connections cost roughly half the price of a game per month anyhow. So that's a very unrealistic thing to say, that there's a difference between a 60 dollar game and paying 360 dollars a year on internet access. Let's be realistic.

If one simply hasn't the time to spend on the internet long enough to merit paying that kind of money per month when they're simply not going to make good use of it. That's a reasonable example of why someone simply would opt not to pay for it.

The only people they're punishing here are the legitimate consumers. By stealing precious time from my life on top of taking money that I've worked to earn. It seems rather selfish to lump me into the same group as software pirates even though I would have paid my money for the game. Lets not confuse the issue here. That's exactly what they're doing.

There are much better ways to enforce copy protection, without treating your customers like garbage. FADE comes to mind. I personally don't care about Half life 2 so much as that it's a prominent title that's no doubt attempting to integrate something that may be adopted by the industry as a whole. Which is just scary, and immensely disappointing.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:03 pm

How are they stealing time from you?

Koki · Post by **Koki** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:03 am

Being realistic, 90% of people in USA and western Europe have internet access, and that's the only places producents really care abut.

But in my opinion, it's not that Steam was MADE so it will be a protection. No. Original idea was uloading HL2 through it, so that Valve can become independent from distributor which gets about 80% of the income. But they wanted to put HL2 in shops later anyway, and the encryption became a cheap, additional protection, a leftover from original uploading plan. So that's how I see it.

Post by **Retlaw83** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:46 am

Koki wrote:That depends already. Not on every game-box they write 'Internet connection REQUIRED to install the game'. Hell, I don't remember seein warning like that at Ultima's box. So if you see writing like that, one should become curious. I would.
Also, in the store I was buying HL2, I had: Original warning, second warning on the box(By distributor), and third warning standing near the shelf(By shop). Not bad.
Last think - what is this 'casual gamer' you speak of, who don't know what Half Life 2 is?

Ultima Online requiring an internet connection to install is perfectly acceptable, as the game can only be played <i>online</i>. It is patently unacceptable to require the internet for installing a SINGLE PLAYER game, however.

Also, every copy I've seen in the half-dozen stores I've been to this weekend have only one "warning" located in the system requirments box. And a lot of casual gamers - especially with newer computers - don't bother looking at the requirements box, or understand what the writing in it means. Someone who doesn't know their system specs probably haven't been following Half-Life 2's development cycle and more than likely don't know about the vagaries of authentication through steam. So, the casual gamer gets raped in the ass with a plunger handle, especially if they're on dialup.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:31 pm

Usually, when someone wishes to spend 1000-1500$ on a computer, dependign on the currency, he will also have an internet access. STOP MAKING A FUSS OUT OF NOTHING, FUCKERS.

Blargh · Post by **Blargh** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 3:16 pm

S4ur0n27 wrote:he will also have an internet access. /EL SNIPPO DISLIKES PEOPLE WHO WRITE 'USUALLY' !!11twelvety

Usually this, usually that. You assume far too much.

YOU ! YEAH, YOU, THE GUY WITH THE LACROSSE STICK ! GO 'WAY AND LEAVE ME ALONE, YOU PONCY TIT(s).

Nicolai · Post by **Nicolai** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:20 pm

blargh on vodka =

Koki · Post by **Koki** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 8:52 pm

Retlaw83 wrote:And a lot of casual gamers - especially with newer computers - don't bother looking at the requirements box, or understand what the writing in it means.

Well then I say: Screw them. It's like natural selection

Burnov · Post by **Burnov** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 9:39 pm

I've heard quite a few individuals already who've had to wait a long time to authenticate just because Steam is shite. Furthermore, when I attempted to play Halflife online with steam, many times I simply wasn't able to log onto steam at certain times. As I understand even when you're playing halflife 2 singleplay, you're still connected to steam if you're running halflife 2. This means that conceivably I could be denied the luxury of playing a game I paid with -my- money when -I- want to. Which is stealing time from me. Yes. A completely unwarranted theft of my spare time which could be spent doing things I want to do.

By assuming everyone who has a computer has an internet connection whereever they go let alone broadband is assuming far too much. Furthermore this lends creedence to my claim that once more. I'd be having valuable time of mine stolen from me if I had the time to play a game on that specific day. If an online connection wasn't available at that time. And I had not installed/authenticated the game. I'd be fucked. Again another senseless theft of my time. I should be able to spend it as I wish If I choose to purchase something and use it. However this conceivably denies me this.

Very good point someone made

http://www.gamezone.de/kolumne_detail.a ... 2711125012

Sorry, this article is in german only... but I try to find it in english too. Fact is Valve is basically allowed to charge you fees and fees over and over again over time for playing this game. Basically every 30 days!

Some what bad translation with Google
Quote
If the American does not get which it wants, then he takes himself it simply. As the strongest power on this planet it can also afford. Laws and regulations of other countries gone around thereby likewise or ignored, like that as one also in the opinion this only few to is not at all interested. Which for the American is good, must fit also the remainder of the world, and who for it is not, is against it.

Faithfully to this slogan valve forces upon evenly world-wide to the players a Spionagetool, which binds the freshly installed play only in one more for than unausgereiftem process over the InterNet enkodiert to sell it to a user account and finally actually cancelled, because it is neither possible the software again nor one could use a warranty the play longer than 30 days. Justified in the so-called EULA, Valves is appropriate for the trading conditions to its products and in the special to the Steam software, which we want to regard now once more near:

"If valve of gives you 30 days notice, they CAN make you pay more for HL2:
Valve reserves the right ton of CHANGES our fees or billing methods RK any time and valve wants provide notice OF any looks for CHANGES in RK leases thirty (30) days advance."

Valve keeps itself thus the right forwards within one announcement period of only 30 days a further payment for helped Life 2 to require. A reason why one for a product already paid again pay must, gives it naturally not. But it becomes still better:

"valve CAN CHANGE the license agreement, and if you don't like the new agreement, you have ton stop playing HL2 within 30 days"

Valve means to be able to change thus in all seriousness a contract on one side within 30 days, without asking the contracting party (the customer) for its agreement. If valve has in the future a still more impudent idea the customer the money from the bag to thus pull, must it only their license regulations change and the customer has it to accept. Without being able to proceed a chance against it, because one accepts the new conditions not, must one a playing with helped Life 2 within the 30 days to adjust. But it becomes still better:

"You can't sell A CoPy OF HL2 second hand:
If by along you others ton use your account, you acres responsible for their illegaly or more improper use by look for person. Your account and subscription (s) of acres subject ton the Agreement. You May emergency sell or load others for the right ton use your account, or otherwise share or transfer your account."

One can be paid with cash coin did not help Life 2 not to resell. Not because it would be technically or physically not possible, but because it wants to have valve in such a way. Without there for it a legal basis would be, forbids valve the product after use further selling. Also for this there is naturally no reason, only a bad warning: Who its account another leaves is responsible for its "illegal actions". Here one may ask, how an illegal action with a legal product looks? A play acquired legally in the trade suddenly illegal because the owner changed it? That would wish itself valve probably in such a way the fact that they may determine which legally and which is illegal. In a democratic state for it however still the Judikative is responsible, and one software Software-Klit to the prosecutor, judge and Henker up-plays itself. With which we would have concerned at the last point, i.e. - one may call them really in such a way on the basis the publications of the developers in the Steam forum - haemischen the blockage of 20.000 allegedly illegal Steam accounts. Because in the reason one cannot make reproach for valve, if they tighten really illegal keys and exclude these from the service. One more than bitter taste gets the thing however by the fact that valve meant illegal keys themselves in the forum published and the people the mentioned keys used not only helped Life 2 closed, but, also those, which were activated before with a legal key, blocked all valve products. Valve does not shrink from itself thus at the own customers even if only a fraction of the 20,000 were to punish by causing financial damage to them. Because valve relies fully on its Steam software, those, that should we not forget, up to the last instant more badly than quite functioned, and does not examine not at all the legal standard of its procedure. In the opposite one means whole in the own forum only that those people became closed those sweating to begin exactly NOW to be supposed. That is to be gone around nevertheless exactly the correct clay/tone over with its customers. More intelligent it would be to be turned been direct to the alleged robbery copiers, instead of pushing world-wide customers before the head.

We summarize thus: The company Valve, who was noticeable in the last years only because of their uncertain servers, on those the hackers like Japanese tourists on the resident of Munich Marienplatz tummelten themselves, introduces that world-wide first on-line distribution system for their software, over which the customer can purchase on-line software after delivery of his personal data and credit card information. For the performed purchase price however the customer receives not an adequate play, no, to play straight times permission mentioned play for accurately 30 days. If it should occur to valve, it can this period also at any time shorten or completely waive, because the right the license conditions at any time and without further inquiry to change to be allowed one reserves oneself. Additionally must one with thoughts to live that now a company, which already proved that it cannot watch out for its data, in the possession of all relevant personal data of the customers is, these however is in response practically entrechtet. In a sentence in summary: Valve may avail itself of everything, even at the account of the customer and cancel its rightfully acquired software, and the customer may not do anything, except sweating before fear. Fear, which probably shrinks from itself with its data happened at a company at it their customers such as free game to treat not to announce itself to fear the day ago at that the paid play any longer functioned because valve no more desire has and fear before it at all to word because criticism at the Steam system in the forums is not gladly read at all and usually ruede is commentated.

Dear valve team, then does not go that naturally. One cannot deny a certain Bauernschlaeue to you like their Vivendi over the table pulled, which helped the development of Life 2 to have paid and now into the tube kucken where it around earning goes. Also the fundamental thought of an on-line distribution is surely not bad and holds certain Potenzial. Why however does it have to be that it the customer the feeling give a criminal to be? Don't wait their it, which stated that owing to the Steam system pirat copies are not at all possible? And don't wait their it the mentioned "illegal CD keys" in the forum placed? Could one speak there not from a seduction to the theft? And if you feel you already in such a way in the right, why must request you your customers "to sweat"? If it you are so safe it with robbery copiers to do to have, why you do not go the course of law and indicates appropriate people simply? For instance from absence of court-firm proofs? And if you convince in such a way of the quality of your products since, why you grant to the customer only ridiculous and a legally not durable 30 days right to then play? And how you present you a bond of trust between you and the customers, if their him robs all consumer rights planned by the legislator? Because a law of which the sales of used software does not forbid existed, completely in the opposite gives it a whole industry from used software lives.

Or does Valves route represent nothing different one than the new American Way OF Life? Who for us is not, is against us.

you should very nervous right about NOW.

Again. It's not so much this game in particular that bothers me so much. It's that this is a portentous sign that the entire industry may well move in this direction. As far as that goes. Either I get my games without their horseshit. Or I simply don't play them. My time is valuable enough not to waste it fiddling around with garbage like steam just to play a game, if that's the amount of trouble I've got to go to. It is again in my opinion, completely unwarranted and unnecessary.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 10:14 pm

What are you trying to do, Burnov?