Duck and Cover

I'd like to raise the issues of NPC's.
In the previous fallout games, the NPC implementation with non player controlled NPC's was, in my opinion, a great success.
Forcing the player to give the NPC's instructions on preffered bahaviour in combat situations was really fun.
Now, I suggest that bethesda take this one step further, by introducing the concept of NPC's as autonomous agents rather than scripted objects. Im not really talking about a full compliance to the agent programming paradigm. But about a more agent oriented way of handeling NPC's, making them capable of autonomous action and maybe even implementing some kind of hybrid BDI architecture.
By giving each and every joinable NPC some personal 'properties' such as a measure of autonomy, self preservation and dedication to the player. The NPC's could choose on their own whether or not to comply with the player wishes. For instance a NPC with low autonomy is more probable to follow the player around and do as told in combat situations while a hight autonomy NPC may start hurling grenades on his own initiatives and even start trouble in towns and so on.
Of course this would mean higher sys req's, bui considering moore's law and the fact that FO3 probably wont be released for some years, its probably doable.
As I said, sticking purely to the agent oriented paradigm wont be nescessary, and maybe not even desirable, but just by introducing a more agent oriented way of handeling NPC's bethesda would really evolve the way we think about NPC's. They would come 'alive'.
Since the game will be a closed environment, any commitment to standards and ACL's (Agent Communication Laguages) will not be nescessary. the whole concept of ACL's could probably be left out, leaving the agent with a smaller range of actions to perform if possible and if deemed nesccessary.
The big difference between this and the scriptig approach would be that things will happen if the NPC choose them to, not if the programmers wanted them to. Offcourse the NPC's internal state would have much to do with this, a content and happy NPC would have a lesser chance of starting a fight than a frustrated and angry one.

Im not asking fully autonomous agents, Im merely proposing viewing the NPC's as agents, implementing some of the basic ideas in agents, making the NPC's more like their own persons and less like scripted midgets.

I have some more thoughts about this, and will post them later.
cheers

//Part II

Now, consider a random encounter with raiders or summit. In FO1 & 2 each enemy acted on their own, following their own script.
Envision a group of enemies acting like a Multiagent system, sensing eachother and the environment and then actiong upon this information.
This is no revolutionary idea, already in other games enemies are healing eachother. Hoever, this could be taken one step further, allowing ememies to form strategies and make descisions on their own rather than just sensing and healing.
Consider a combat situation with 5 raiders.
These five are created and starts communicating. Lets assume that each raider starts the combat by 'broadcasting' their level and sensing the environment.
Based on level the raiders could negotiate a leader who, when chosen declares a strategy based on his own skills and preferences.This strategy could either be a pre-scripted strategy where the leader assigns roles to the other raiders, or it could be an assignment of roles without any scripted strategy. That is, instead of a scripted strategy, eacg raqider has its own implementation of each role. So, each individual raider decides on its own how his role works.
Should one alse include the concept of autonomy here, each raider could reject the action plan, which could result in desertion (being attacked by the other raiders) or just him fighting on his own way, not following the strategy. All depending of how the raider negtiated as leader reacts to his refusal.

Things are already developing this way in games, and with each new game enemies start acting more and more as agents.
Allowing these agents to form a multiagent system would add another dimension to combat and combat strategies.

Would be really fucking nice to see some believable NPC's who decides wether or not to use a grenade in a city.

But don't you think the annoyance factor will be high?

"Ah FUCK you man! I decide wether or not I'm going to use this minigun in this very tight corridor, even though you and the rest of the guys are standing in my way, and I can't come through to shoot!"

I get pissed whenever my underlings don't do what I tell them to do, or act randomly psychotic or stupid.

Of course, you want shit like that minimized, but I'm not sure it can be done well enough...
(Without way too much hassle anyway)

Before all that would work good, a scripted version would almost be preferrable...

(Sorry I didn't justify your long posts with a good, long reply.. )

But don't you think the annoyance factor will be high?

Well, no. As I wrote, each NPC could have measurements of their autonomy and loyalty to the player. This could be shown by what they say when you speak to them.
This would force the player to make trade-offs when choosing his companions. Between say reliability and usefullness. And, a player with good speech skill would be able to build a closer bond to his NPC's and thus they will be more reliable.
I acutally enjoyed it when my NPC's in FO2 planted a minigun burst in my ass. Chit got fun.

Before all that would work good, a scripted version would almost be preferrable...

Well, if your NPC's decides to do as you told em, things will follow a script. Bear in mind though that some NPC's may consider your instructions to be stupid at times and do things their own way.

Just don't let random people join you in a quest to save the world.
That's stupid.

Evien if you have common agenda, they should leave after that agenda is finished. "Hey, I like you, I will join you in that quest where there will be 2789 chances to die."


Seems like I just like radical solutions

Smiley wrote:act randomly psychotic or stupid.

Now THAT would have been awesome.

They already do act stupid. No need for special programming for that part.

2)You quickly find out who's the burst hazard, and give him a non burst weapon.

.)If its an annoying fuckhead, you plant him with explosives and tell him to run towards the enemy.

8)If your 'buddy' won't follow suit, kick his ass around a bit in mele, let him know who's the boss.

One thing I'd like to see; boozers, junkies, gamblers and renegades.
You walk into a town that has a bar, the boozer says "Hey, if you need me, I'll be at the bar." "Nah man, I ain't goin' another step until I get a drink."

[fake EDIT: Might get into a few brawls, lower your CH in conversations ( you don't exactly impress anyone with a drunk at your side, some people CH+ perhaps ?), maybe some speciality as well, like less downside of being wasted and medium downside on being sober? + Double the stat up from alcohole. ]

Walk past a drug dealer, junkie scatters off to resupply; but what if he's out of cash? You know how it itches. Maybe... knock the dealer out and grab the jet? Why wouldn't he?

[fake EDIT: He's addicted and he might cost you money, but instead of just stats penalty I think it should have an impact on behaviour. Peachy when high, complete bastard when not. Chances are he'll freak out at the wrong time and place, start a fight when he shouldn't, run away when you need him the most, etc. On the other hand, well, maybe X2 the effects of drugs? Drugs last longer, recovery-time unlimited. Things like that? Make up your own then. ]

Gamblers, same thing here. Don't want them near a slot-machine. On the other hand, what if they take the jackpot? Might afford a new ray-gun on that one.

[fake EDIT: Again, conversation booster. Have him by your side when bluffing, you'll get empathy for free, and maybe a slight %boost to speech. On the other hand, the guy might turn out to be a thievin' bastard, and once in a while, a bit of cash goes missing.]

Renegades, I'm thinking, simply scatter off. "I got some business on in this town." Maybe get themselves some equipment on their own? Cash in an old loan? Look up an old friend? Do whatever the hell they want. Might be a bit shit, if he's missing in the time of need, but at least you don't have to babysit em'.

[fake EDIT: Not much to say. Reacts on his own, which is both good and bad. Initial turn in combat, and all that kind of jazz, bonus PE etc. Can break out of conversations ( between you and npcs ) and start a fight, if he finds something insulting or whatever. Alot of quick mouths in the wasteland, y'dig? ]

I'm not saying you'll be left teamless every time you're in a place of interest, it should be somewhat controlled. Like "No, look. You CAN'T piss off right now. Back in line, buddy." and stuff like that ( adding to their frustration with you ), but man would this rock. I'm pretty ok with them taking bits and pieces of loot as well, that there is one shiny gun, why wouldn't the gun-guy take it? They shouldn't give up loot ( in trade ) that easy either, not with all things ofcourse, but if they find something they like, I guess you'll have to barter in team as well. Its survival.

EDIT: Oh yeah, simple, obvious detail - A button that says "Piss off. We'll catch up at this spot at X o-clock." so you can just get rid of weight whenever you want, and have it back whenever you need it. No standing around either, they do their shit, you do yours. Would be pretty awesome to say "Lets split, I'm going to Jugend-City, meet me there in X days", or just mark out a place on the map. When you get to Jugend-City, guy's been waiting for you several days now, and most of the town knows him, and has their own thoughts about him. Maybe he's in jail or DEAD, or maybe he's their hero for some reason.
I'd pay to see that sort of thing.

I'd pay to see Kahgan post a meaningful, worthwhile comment on our beloved forum.

I want to know what people think of my idea.

Sounds totally awesome to me, become a game designer or something.

Would be extremely cool and all that stuff but highly unlikely

Yeah, really awesome. You should be a designer in fallout 3... You will become very popular.

Im popular enough as it is, I'd do it for the booze.