Duck and Cover

I've just been playing the Jailbreak campaign. I don't know if it will ever be revised, but I thought I'd point out a few little issues that came up.

In the first map, I noticed when playing in turn-based that the AI took an inordinately long time. It didn't seem to be an issue in the other two, though. I pretty much had to play in CTB just so combats literally wouldn't take several minutes to resolve. My system is pretty modest (Celeron 500, 190 MB, Voodoo 3, SB Live), but it runs other stuff in FOT just fine.

I've said this elsewhere, but I had a problem with the Raiders going neutral after I had got the quest to kill them from Rita. As a result, they just sat there indifferently while I planted bombs at their feet, plus killing them ruined my reputation. After opening the game in the editor, I saw that it was because I passed a Raider Neutral Zone for the first time after talking to her.

I also noticed for some strange reason that when I'd save a game in a new slot and then try to reload, it would load from the original game slot. If I tried to exit, then it would load the new save game. That's probably just an unfixed bug in FOT, though.

Also, with the speech files for the second and third maps, they didn't get loaded automatically, so I had to open the editor and do it manually. My decompression program unzipped everything automatically into the directories provided, and all the other files seemed to be in order from what I could see.

I haven't finished the third map since my save files through it somehow got corrupted. The program would crash every time I tried to load them. Also, when I was mostly finished, the characters got messed up. On the display, each of the first three characters took up two slots, and I could no longer access them or their hands from the toolbar at the bottom. I could still select them by hotkeys, but that was it.

In the third map, I also started with two Lolas, the one I had been playing with and another at 9th level. It created problems when recruiting people. I got in the editor and removed the second Lola and everything worked fine, though.

With Lola starting out, it would have been nice to have a little more choice. I realize the game was geared for melee and traps, but some of the traits were a bit hindering. If I had the choice, I would have ditched heavy-handed since I really depended on criticals to take enemies out quickly, fast shot since it also stopped me from targeting melee hits and I didn't use throwing enough to be worth it, and accelerated healing since I found myself poisoned a lot by roaches. I also think I would have taken Silent Running instead of a third Bonus HtH Damage, but maybe that's just me.

With the equipment situation, it might have been a bit more challenging if supplies were more limited, though, as I never found myself in a situation where I really had to think hard on whether to use a bomb or mine or try to take out my opponent in melee when he was alone. There were also tons and tons of healing items, more than I ever needed. It kind of took some of the tension away when I effectively had unlimited health. As long as someone didn't flat out kill me instantly, I didn't have to worry about much else.

Those were the only problems I ran across. It was a very enjoyable game overall, and the maps and enemies were well-laid out. I'm going to try out Rebellion, next.

Walks with the Snails wrote:In the first map, I noticed when playing in turn-based that the AI took an inordinately long time. It didn't seem to be an issue in the other two, though. I pretty much had to play in CTB just so combats literally wouldn't take several minutes to resolve. My system is pretty modest (Celeron 500, 190 MB, Voodoo 3, SB Live), but it runs other stuff in FOT just fine.

I make all my maps for CTB. I say that in all of my eariler maps' readmes, but I keep forgetting to say that in my more recent stuff... thanks for the reminder!

Walks with the Snails wrote:I've said this elsewhere, but I had a problem with the Raiders going neutral after I had got the quest to kill them from Rita. As a result, they just sat there indifferently while I planted bombs at their feet, plus killing them ruined my reputation. After opening the game in the editor, I saw that it was because I passed a Raider Neutral Zone for the first time after talking to her.

Again, Rep and Rank play no part in this map, so that's not a real problem. By the way, when you planted the bombs, were they enemies or neutrals? (i.e. did they have a little red circle under their feet?). If they did, then OK. If not... one of us goofed up. The Raiders should go back to being hostile when you accept Rita's quest. In all my testing of that map, I never had the Raiders stay neutral.

Walks with the Snails wrote:I also noticed for some strange reason that when I'd save a game in a new slot and then try to reload, it would load from the original game slot. If I tried to exit, then it would load the new save game. That's probably just an unfixed bug in FOT, though.

I noticed that m'self. Can't offer any explaination other than yours

Walks with the Snails wrote:Also, with the speech files for the second and third maps, they didn't get loaded automatically, so I had to open the editor and do it manually. My decompression program unzipped everything automatically into the directories provided, and all the other files seemed to be in order from what I could see.

I've had some reports of the speech files not behaving, so you're not alone.

Walks with the Snails wrote:I haven't finished the third map since my save files through it somehow got corrupted. The program would crash every time I tried to load them. Also, when I was mostly finished, the characters got messed up. On the display, each of the first three characters took up two slots, and I could no longer access them or their hands from the toolbar at the bottom. I could still select them by hotkeys, but that was it.

Uh... this is a new one on me!

Walks with the Snails wrote:In the third map, I also started with two Lolas, the one I had been playing with and another at 9th level. It created problems when recruiting people. I got in the editor and removed the second Lola and everything worked fine, though.

Yep, I know about this, and I posted a "fixed" version on my site, although I don't know about the version NMA has... the version DaC has is fixed, however.

Walks with the Snails wrote:With Lola starting out, it would have been nice to have a little more choice. I realize the game was geared for melee and traps, but some of the traits were a bit hindering. If I had the choice, I would have ditched heavy-handed since I really depended on criticals to take enemies out quickly, fast shot since it also stopped me from targeting melee hits and I didn't use throwing enough to be worth it, and accelerated healing since I found myself poisoned a lot by roaches. I also think I would have taken Silent Running instead of a third Bonus HtH Damage, but maybe that's just me.

I always try to get people to play a certain way or using a certain type of character that they wouldn't try otherwise. With regards to criticals: During testing, Lola always killed bad guys in 1-3 punches, so I can't see what the problem is there.

Walks with the Snails wrote:With the equipment situation, it might have been a bit more challenging if supplies were more limited, though, as I never found myself in a situation where I really had to think hard on whether to use a bomb or mine or try to take out my opponent in melee when he was alone. There were also tons and tons of healing items, more than I ever needed. It kind of took some of the tension away when I effectively had unlimited health. As long as someone didn't flat out kill me instantly, I didn't have to worry about much else.

Yep, yep. I'll eventually learn to limit the stuff I make available...

Walks with the Snails wrote:Those were the only problems I ran across. It was a very enjoyable game overall, and the maps and enemies were well-laid out. I'm going to try out Rebellion, next.

Well, I'm glad you liked it!

You can check the version NMA has and if it's the wrong one, email me the newer version and I'll put it up in place. Also, see my news bit in the sticky thread.

Yep, that's the old one. I would send you the new one, but it's over Hotmail's 1 meg limit on file attachments, so we need to meet on ICQ or mIRC so I can give it to ya.

I usually send Odin my maps (sent him Rebellion3 yesterday) via ICQ, but I can't find your ICQ UIN (if you have one, of course), so just email me with what you want to do.

I just tried to email you, but the thing was actin' wierd, so I'm posting here.

I quit for 2 weeks after this happened to me then, somewhat refreshed, proceeded to replay jb2 then jb3, but once again in jb3, while nearing the main bunker through the "garage", the problem reared it's ugly head - 2 of each.

PLs., anyone, how do I delete the second Lola via the editor? Note: I'm an editor super-noob so go slooowly. T.Y.

P.S. I dont have a portrait of Pete, is this true for everyone?

For the second Lola to go away, you have to install JB3 latest version and start from the latest JB2 save you have, in order for the changes to take place(also remember to associate the speech file manually).

I got the same with Pete. As I made a little search and couldn't find a Pete.zar file I can only guess Max-V didn't provide one. Perfectly fine, as this doesn't diminish at all the playing experience. You have to remember that whatever you play is made during our spare time, so since nobody gets paid for it, don't expect a 100% commercial like program.

And thinking about it, FoT had a lot of bugs in the first place, so...

Exhilirating campaign, each mission getting progressively interesting, e.g. [SPOILER !] new armor, new enemies, etc.. Well-paced and no needless head-scratching - the tools and functions of each objective didn't require that irritating "key search" feel in some fps-type games. Though the story was linear, it didn't feel like the narrative shoved you in any direction. You are basically free to complete the directives in any order, especially last mission. And levelling up 3-4 times within a mission is just plain fun.

Wish list:
1. New weapons to play with for each new mission besides the armor. For instance, a high-damage throw weapon that only comes in pairs to avoid abuse.
2. Pace it so Lola would eventually reach lvl. 24 to allow that ever-elusive (to me, in particular) Slayer perk. I've never ever reached that level and so my next game I'm playing solo or two characters and the main is definitely a Martial Arts/Sneak character !
3. The bugs need to be squashed (don't take offense please, this is a WISH LIST so take it at face value). I realize the new versions eliminate these but I still got 2 Lolas after nearly completing the game, around the garage area despite using new version. I decided to just go all crazy w/o regard for stealth and still survived, which brings me to the last wish...
4. Make getting caught more consequential via, maybe, increasing the weapons damage ? I don't really know. Or maybe, drastically reducing Stimpack availability.
5. O.K., not really anything to do with the game, but the real final wish is for continued campaigns

Note: excuse the fact my review isn't as technical as others but I can't appreciate the mod at that level being very new (read: totally a noob) with modding/using the editor.

Stealth boy wrote:2. Pace it so Lola would eventually reach lvl. 24 to allow that ever-elusive (to me, in particular) Slayer perk. I've never ever reached that level and so my next game I'm playing solo or two characters and the main is definitely a Martial Arts/Sneak character !

Play Rebellion. In it, there's Super Mutant you get to play as. By the end of the mini-campaign (3 missions like JB was), he'll get level 24 (maybe even higher than that - depends on how fast you get him in the first mission) and *poof* he becomes god-like

Stealth boy wrote:3. The bugs need to be squashed (don't take offense please, this is a WISH LIST so take it at face value). I realize the new versions eliminate these but I still got 2 Lolas after nearly completing the game, around the garage area despite using new version. I decided to just go all crazy w/o regard for stealth and still survived, which brings me to the last wish...

Eh? There's another Lola near the garage area? I just checked and... there isn't one. Go grab the latest version off of my site if you REALLY don't want a duplicate Lola - just make sure you have a save game from JB2 first

Stealth boy wrote:4. Make getting caught more consequential via, maybe, increasing the weapons damage ? I don't really know. Or maybe, drastically reducing Stimpack availability.

Yup, yup. I'm definately workin' on reducing the healing stuff available in my future "work."

Stealth boy wrote:5. O.K., not really anything to do with the game, but the real final wish is for continued campaigns

I'll keep makin' maps if you keep playin' them and give me some feedback on 'em If I don't get any feedback, I'm gonna assume there wasn't any major issues with the map!

Granted, I know better than that...

Just finished the campaign

Or actually I should say I came close enough to the end to say I did.

I had no luck getting the speech file to load, and after copying it in where its supposed to be, it still didn't work. So I couldn't actually finish the objectives. But since I had TWO Lolas to work with I was still able to slaughter every BOS on the map.

From reading the other messages about this campaign it sounds like the problem is all in my setting it up. :oops:

No problems with saves, the game did slow down a bit in a few places (too many active characters on screen I guess).

Overall a good campaign, with plenty of map, lots of stuff to kill, plenty of weapons and ammo to collect. The plot line works out as far as I can tell.

Max-V - Is there anyplace you would recommend people to go to download the last version. From the post above it sounds like there are several that you released.

J I

My site (link's in my sig) always had the lastest and greatest of whatever it is I'm doing. This had been true since I made the site (a while ago) and will continue to be true for as long as I have stuff to share with others over the 'Net

I downloaded Jailbreak 1 and 2+3 from your site. I created a new FoT on a clean partition of my computer, upgraded it to version 1.27, then installed the Jailbreaks. Then I created the shortcut to the Max-V folder and fired it up. After selecting Jailbreak from the Custom Campaign menu I hit "TAKE" and didn't try and create a character.

Game starts with two active characters. Lola standing by the exit area and Warrior imobilized in the jail. After a few seconds Warrior converts to Lola also, no longer imobilized, but with a mode box in Red.

I always worry that others run into the problems that I do and don't bother to mention them, for whatever reason. Perhaps you (Max-V) could post a note here about what needs to be done to fix this and other problems that people run into. I noted someplace a message to use the editor to open the mission and double-click on the speech file? Collecting these into a single "Problem - Solution" list would be convenient for those who are less willing to come forward and admit their failings. (Not that I have any failings of course, I was just speaking hypothetically).

J I

Did you DL the JB 2&3 zip offa my site recently? Sorry, I don't remember exactly when I updated the zip to fix the "double Lola" problem in JB3.

About the beginning of JB1: That's exactly how it's supposed to be Here's the deal:

I wanted the human player to see Lola pace back and forth for a little bit to give some "feel" to the game (and so Lola's speech lines actually work). In order to do that, she can't be under human control (i.e. her Player Index can't be 1). Problem with that is the fact that the little scene takes place inside a building. Since no actor is a PC, the roof never pops so the human can see what's going on. Therefore, I had do to a little "switcheroo" for the roof to pop AND to have Lola start as I want to. I made the other warrior sleeping (so the human player can't screw stuff up by beating up Lola or somethin' ).

So, that explains that.

Now, are you saying that when the napping warrior is switched to an NPC, that you have TWO Lolas under your control?

Shit... lemme fire up the editor and see what I did...

OK, so I'm confused. There's no Lola near the exit grid. I must've fixed it and forgot! :oops: Do you get an extra Lola in JB3? You better not, damnit! I'm positive I fixed and posted that in my site (and DaC, memory serves. I'm pretty sure the version on NMA is old and/or crusty).

If I wasn't so damn busy with work, school, and sleep (today, I was up at 8am after 4 hours of sleep, and here it is, 3:30am the next day, and I'm still freakin' awake), I'd fix it all up and repost it. However, any time I manage to scrape together to work on FOT maps is going to be used to make NEW material.

Hell, all you need to do to "fix" it is to assign the speech files yourself (for JB2 and 3, I reckon) and delete the extra Lola from JB1.

All these problems that are just now surfacing are making me VERY glad I decided to make Revenge a series of maps instead of a 10-map or so campaign...

Apparently, I still don't know what I'm doing

I really, REALLY wanna figure out why the speech files screw up for most people. It just doesn't make any sense how everything can work great when I test it out (over and over, usually), yet not work at all for others.

EDIT: Oh, and the reason that Lola's Sentry Mode button is red and nonfunctional is because the game doesn't like actors that start NPCs and get turned into PCs. If, when you "recieve" new actors durning a map, you Save then Load your game, it'll be all better

I try and mention that as much as I can (readme's, in-game messages, posting here, etc.), but I'm pretty sure I forgot sometimes (like when I released Deathclaw Desert Chapter 1 wow that was a long time ago -- I knew about the issue and didn't let anyone else know till they asked :oops:).

Max-V: I downloaded Jailbreak and Jailbreak 2+3 from your Geocities web site last weekend and the speech file problem was still there. All that I had to do to fix the problem was go into the .MIS files with the FoT editor, find the speech file in its appropriate folder, double click on it, then save and play. In JailBreak 1 I also deleted the extra Lola near the exit grid before I started playing. That was the last I saw of duel Lolas throughout all three missions.

Anyone playing this would be well advised to collect and save all of the remote bombs you can find in the JB 1 and 2 and carry them with you into JB 3. Last time I did this, with Lola staggering encumbered into the exit grid of JB 2 laden with bombs and mines and stimpacks and a couple of sniper rifles and lots of 7.62 ammo and a grenade launcher and some poison injectors from JB 1 (I think) JB 3 went pretty fast!

With the speech file and dual Lolas problem corrected its a pretty fun three levels :!:

The only caveat I might make is that Max-V's design style is to make missions where your style of play is "guided" into a relatively narrow path. Sneak and Bomb in the case of these three. So if you want to try lots of different ways to complete these you will likely be disappointed, as they are probably not workable using other styles. Stand Up and shoot it out won't work for example, as the NPC's are all crack shots who will do on average 50% damage to you with each shot they make. If they see you they will shoot, if they shoot they will hit, and it will take 2 Super-Stimpacks to heal up the damage from each hit. There's lots of stimpacks to be found, but not that many!

J I