New Poll

Post by **King of Creation** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:45 pm

[ Community -> Update ]

I've thrown a new poll up. It asks: "Is a Class System a good or bad idea for Fallout 3?" I've been thinking about this a lot recently. I brought the point up a long time ago that I think a class system would be an absolutely terrible idea for Fallout 3. You shouldn't be restricted from skills, perks, or quest options because of your "class." I think it's one of the worst things possible for the game. It just doesn't go with the Fallout world, nor with the SPECIAL system.Anyway...what do you think?Also, the results of the previous poll showed that the majority of you use St. Toxic's template for DAC's mainpage (I do too). Cheers!

Haris · Post by **Haris** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:58 pm

Best Idea Possible, only reason why it wasnt there in fallout 2 is the engine restrictions.

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:59 pm

Haris wrote:Best Idea Possible, only reason why it wasnt there in fallout 2 is the engine restrictions.

...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

For serious?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Cthulhugoat · Post by **Cthulhugoat** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:01 pm

Horrible. Classes would fuck SPECIAL in the ass.

Post by **King of Creation** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:10 pm

Personally, I think Classes are not only the worst possible idea for Fallout 3, but for all cRPG's in general. All these TES fanboys like to talk about IMERSHUN....classes are one of the biggest detriments to immersion that I can think of. When you're born, do you go and say "Hmmm....I think I'll be a chaotic good Bard in this life"? Or "you know, I'd really like to be a neutral Caravan worker." NO. A classless system like SPECIAL illustrated the flexibility of the game mechanics and provided an unbelievable immersion experience.

Haris · Post by **Haris** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:17 pm

King of Creation wrote:Personally, I think Classes are not only the worst possible idea for Fallout 3, but for all cRPG's in general. All these TES fanboys like to talk about IMERSHUN....classes are one of the biggest detriments to immersion that I can think of. When you're born, do you go and say "Hmmm....I think I'll be a chaotic good Bard in this life"? Or "you know, I'd really like to be a neutral Caravan worker." NO. A classless system like SPECIAL illustrated the flexibility of the game mechanics and provided an unbelievable immersion experience.

You dont go "Uh i am gonna be lucky and goodlooking eather."

I really dont see how it would damage the game if you could have both Classes and Races buildt around special system. It would just work as a set of perks and taged skills.

Brother None · Post by **Brother None** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:40 pm

Haris wrote:Uh i am gonna be lucky and goodlooking eather..

Haris wrote:I really dont see how it would damage the game if you could have both Classes and Races buildt around special system. It would just work as a set of perks and taged skills.

Offering *what* advantage, exactly?

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:48 pm

haris, you don't seem to understand the obvious disadvantage of a class system, that it is needlessly restrictive. as usual (edit: and as kharn already pointed out), the onus is on you to come up with some way in which it'll improve gameplay/character development over what SPECIAL already offers.

and stupid question: did any of the TES games have a class system? the "open classless character development" is one of those widely used cliches for why the original fallout was so dope (up there with "the dark and gritty atmosphere"). unless all the previous TES games have relied heavily on class-based development (which would entail exclusive quests for different classtypes, i guess) i don't see why bethsoft would think of fucking with it?

Mr. Teatime · Post by **Mr. Teatime** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:54 pm

Bethesda has had classes in their games before but they've just determined your starting stats.

Incidentally you're doing a crazy amount of posting and work for DaC from what I've seen King, just letting you know at least one person appreciates it

Haris · Post by **Haris** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:55 pm

atoga wrote:haris, you don't seem to understand the obvious disadvantage of a class system, that it is needlessly restrictive. as usual (edit: and as kharn already pointed out), the onus is on you to come up with some way in which it'll improve gameplay/character development over what SPECIAL already offers.

and stupid question: did any of the TES games have a class system? the "open classless character development" is one of those widely used cliches for why the original fallout was so dope (up there with "the dark and gritty atmosphere"). unless all the previous TES games have relied heavily on class-based development (which would entail exclusive quests for different classtypes, i guess) i don't see why bethsoft would think of fucking with it?

Class can improve gameplay by altering the way you look, how your character speaks, the way npcs are towards you, and as you said exclusive quests, allso exclusive shops, gangs you can join and weapons/items. When it comes to skills its not much different than taging 3 skills just more advanced.

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:56 pm

The SPECIAL system helped make Fallout a one of a kind game. If Bethesda decides not to use it and goes for classes instead, it would be a huge mistake and a waste of a great system.

POOPERSCOOPER · Post by **POOPERSCOOPER** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:09 am

Would a class system make you choose your alignment(karma) for the whole game like in DnD? I always hate that shit.

I don't think a class system would be very good in fallout because its just going to want the developers to include the mutants, ghouls, deathclaws as playable classes.

Post by **Dogmeatlives** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:12 am

you should only be able to play as humans. Just like real life.

Post by **King of Creation** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:16 am

Haris wrote:Class can improve gameplay by altering the way you look, how your character speaks, the way npcs are towards you, and as you said exclusive quests, allso exclusive shops, gangs you can join and weapons/items. When it comes to skills its not much different than taging 3 skills just more advanced.

How about your ACTIONS dictate how npcs react towards you, and quests you do, etc. Class is just a dumbed down way to interact with the world. God I hate it.

Bradylama · Post by **Bradylama** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:43 am

Haris is some sort of elaborate ruse, right?

Using a class system sort of eliminates a tremendous part of what made Fallout appealing in the first place. Handicapping the player's ability to develop his character from the beginning seriously discourages roleplaying and turns a simulationist game into a gameist one.

A class system also sort of necessitates party interaction. Classes would mean nothing if they couldn't compliment each other, and turning a follower-party mechanic into an adventuring-party mechanic would be tremendously gay.

SuperH · Post by **SuperH** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:54 am

Haris you have so many terrible ideas about fallout. Every single conceivable thing that any normal person holds as a tenet of fallout you have contradictory and idiotic ideas about.

Can we asshat / ban him or something? Either he's saying these ridiculous things to get a rise out of us or he's seriously got some screws loose.

Haris · Post by **Haris** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:16 am

Sorry but i dont see how gameplay in an rpg game would be ruined if the game gives you an option to pick your backround and doesnt force you to be Vault dweler or Tribal in every replay.

Thor Kaufman · Post by **Thor Kaufman** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:10 am

SuperH wrote:Haris you have so many terrible ideas about fallout. Every single conceivable thing that any normal person holds as a tenet of fallout you have contradictory and idiotic ideas about.

Can we asshat / ban him or something? Either he's saying these ridiculous things to get a rise out of us or he's seriously got some screws loose.

he's "working" in a loony bin, literally, do I need to say more

SuperH · Post by **SuperH** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:18 am

Haris wrote:Sorry but i dont see how gameplay in an rpg game would be ruined if the game gives you an option to pick your backround and doesnt force you to be Vault dweler or Tribal in every replay.

That is not even what you said. This entire thread is about CLASS not background for the character. Arcanum pulled off background well, it could be done like that in FO3, but that is not what we're talking about in this thread. Was it hard to keep track of?

Haris wrote:Best Idea Possible, only reason why it wasnt there in fallout 2 is the engine restrictions.

Haris · Post by **Haris** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:29 am

SuperH wrote:
Haris wrote:Sorry but i dont see how gameplay in an rpg game would be ruined if the game gives you an option to pick your backround and doesnt force you to be Vault dweler or Tribal in every replay.
That is not even what you said. This entire thread is about CLASS not background for the character. Arcanum pulled off background well, it could be done like that in FO3, but that is not what we're talking about in this thread. Was it hard to keep track of?
Haris wrote:Best Idea Possible, only reason why it wasnt there in fallout 2 is the engine restrictions.

That is exactly what we are talking about, you can call it class or backround or what ever you want. In fallout 1 and 2 you dont have a choice in who you are going to be at all. You cant be a thief, soldier or medic or anything like that. You are allways Vault dweler with few different atributes.