Critters in FO3

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 4:51 am

It seems we have two opposing schools of thought when it comes to adding new things to the FO universe:

The Purists: These types generally don't want to see anything included in the game that wasn't in the first one.
The Post-Modernists: These types want to add each and every thing that they see in another game, tv show, movie or read about in a book to the FO universe.

I find that the former approach limits the FO universe too much, while the latter is a surefire way to destroy a really unique gaming world post haste. Personally, I fall roughly in between the two approaches, advocating that anything appropriate can and should be added to the world.

For instance, let's talk critters. I submit that the FO universe should not be limited to Brahmin, Deathclaws, Manti, etc. that we saw in the first game, and found that the Geckos of FO2 were an appropriate addition, with the possible exception of Fire Geckos. I will say, however, that since the EPA location was left out of the game the Aliens should have been as well, since their background story wasn't available.

Now, if FO3 moves outside of the standard FO area (i.e. California) I think that there should be a largely new catologue of critters. Are Deathclaws really spread all over the US? Probably not, especially since they seemed to be confined to the southern areas in FO. (Remember how no one wanted to believe that they existed in most areas?)

This gets me to Brahmin. Should this be such a widespread mutation that it has obviously affected all of the remaining cattle in the former US? I say that should FO3 be located somewhere other than Cali there should be a new beast of burden. There are plenty of critters that are well-suited to this task, especially if we take mutant strains into consideration.

For instance, the picture below is from the T$R's Gamma World 3rd Edition rules:

This is a "Hopper" (AKA "Jackalope") and in that gaming world these large, mutated rabbits roam the Great Plains in herds like Bison in the 19th Century. I think something like this would look very good sitting in front of a cart that the successor to the Vault Dweller and Chosen One uses to haul his/her loot around in. What say you? (For obvious reasons this couldn't make its way into FO as-is, but something similar could be used.)

Basically, what I'm advocating is variety w/o resorting to the world destroying phenomenon of Power Gaming. These beasts could be as tough as Brahmin, but would serve to put a different twist on a new area in the game.

OTB

TheReaper · Post by **TheReaper** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 6:19 am

I'd like to see some familiar critters from FO like deathclaws (as lizards this time) but I'd welcome new critters for a change of pace. I think a third game with all the same critters in would be pushing the originality of it a bit too far.

Genghis Khan · Post by **Genghis Khan** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 6:22 am

I think FO3 we should see certain animals domesticated e.g. 'Gecko Rider'

TheReaper · Post by **TheReaper** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 6:27 am

Sounds like a fun alternative to a car to travel by

The Shrike · Post by **The Shrike** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 8:01 am

I would consider my self to lean twords the purist side because I have no faith in Black Isle to make new critters that would be origional but fit the setting. I mean they can't even make the deathclaws right in fallout 2. I do agree that you need more origional critters in a third game, but like you say OTB they have to fit the setting. The new critters would have to also fit the area the new game is set in.

FireWolf · Post by **FireWolf** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 11:04 am

Deathclaws really should be kept to the fallout 1 way of things. they're big, bad, and tough to kill. they should be rarer than they were in fallout 2 and they should NOT have hair. nor should they damn well talk. in fallout 2 there was some justification with the whole Enclave FEV experiment but those talking lizards should have all been wiped out by now so no more talking for you.

I'm in favour of new critters but i do want to keep the old ones too.

brahmin are hardy and useful for their meat, for their strength and for their skins. they're versatile that's why they're popular. also brahmin would be traded across the wastes establishing themselves as important members of the post apoc civilisation. there could be another animal with similar attributes, but cows with two heads are cool.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 5:34 pm

I'd like to see the same critters as in Fallout 1 and some new critters, no FEV mutations this time. Aliens, floaters and centaurs should be removed IMO. They aren't really appropriate.

Deathclaws the FO 1 way, big, nasty, HUGE and deadly to a beginners. Dangerous to mid/end-game characters and they should hunt in packs which get bigger the better you char is. Random encounters should get harder the more you play.

Brahmins should be made even more important than before. I assume they're the only source of meat in the wastelands, if you're not a cannibal. Water(or drought) should have a more important role too.

I guess i fit in 'The Purist' category, but I can allow few exceptions.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 9:32 pm

VasikkA wrote:Aliens, floaters and centaurs should be removed IMO. They aren't really appropriate.

According to the FoB Aliens had a genetic "timer" that would cause the species as a whole to expire within a certain time not long after the end of FO2, so I agree that they shouldn't be present.

Centaurs and Floaters were creations of the Master and since the FEV seems to embue organisms w/extraordinarily long lifespans there could still be a few left around in FO3, even if we assume the standard ca. 80 year gap. I wouldn't want to see them roving around in huge packs like they did in the plains west of Redding, though. There were just way too many of them.

VasikkA wrote:Deathclaws the FO 1 way, big, nasty, HUGE and deadly to a beginners. Dangerous to mid/end-game characters and they should hunt in packs which get bigger the better you char is.

While DCs might be appropriate if the game is set in roughly the same area, I don't think that DCs are the heart of the FO universe, and so I'd like to see a suitable replacement for them if the game is set even a short ways away from the FO/FO2 milieu. One reason being that you can only do so much w/tough beasts. Pretty soon you're having to resort to nothing more than loads of HP, highly damaging attacks w/special effects like knock-downs (and that ever so annoying sliding across the screen, although that has saved more than one of my chars).

VasikkA wrote:Random encounters should get harder the more you play.

That's an interesting idea. It would definitely help in the non-linearity department.

VasikkA wrote:Brahmins should be made even more important than before. I assume they're the only source of meat in the wastelands, if you're not a cannibal.

Geckos were hunted for both skin and food and there were some instances of domesticated Molerats. My main point is that there are literally hosts upon hosts of everyday critters that - with a dab of post apocalyptic imagination - could serve to flesh out the FO universe. Rabbits, for instance, would make for a great basis of a new species of critters. They are fecund beyond belief and I can see why the Gamma World 3rd Ed. rules had at least two types of mutant critters based on them. (One is the example above, the other was a bipedal, tool-using species.) This is really in the same vein that Geckos - a common, everyday lizard that will help keep your house bug free - became a nasty, vicious beast that was a decent challenge at low levels.

OTB

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Fri Jul 26, 2002 9:49 pm

I definitely want all the original critters from fallout, and wouldn't mind so,e new additions or mutations (so long as they don't go by the same name like deathclaws and (sudden growth of) hair)

Like mabye radscorpions with bigger claws/stingers, or have some crabs from the sea start using empty power armour as shells.

I liked the geckos in fallout 2, but they could have mabye added a bit more variety. Same with other critters, like mabye 3 headed brahmin, or brahmin with no heads?

Since it's getting a bit less apocalyptic, mabye more critters could be domesticated like pet geckos, deathclaw babys as guard-dogs or mabye even spore pants as low-tech tribal turrets.

But not get to far, we don't want deathclaws wearing tuxedos yet, or 30 foot monkeys with 8 arms and laser beam eyes. A few new critters, mabye a few new mutations and alter the amount of ants in caves.

It seems the smaller animals altered by FEV improve in intelligence and can bread better, while larger animals (including humans) become impotent and stupid. So by theory there should be more smaller critters and very few larger ones.

If we do see new critters, I'm sure rabbits would be good as some kind of swarm creature. Spiders and cockroaches would be welcome to (the roaches should differ slightly from the fo:t ones though) and mabye some bears coming from canada and extremely rare huge creatures, like the sand-worms in dune.

Blarg. Not exactly fallout though. It doesn't need a lot of new additions or changes, but a few would be nice.

Blacken · Post by **Blacken** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 3:31 am

-Deathclaws: They were all over the U.S. in FO:T. Even though they didn't know what they were doing, I like the idea of em all over because they're badass.

-Brahmin: How dare you suggest we lose the two-headed cow?! ARE YOU MAD, MAN?! Keep 'em, but add more beasts of burden. (Remember those bigass lizard things that stormtroopers rode in Star Wars: A New Hope? Gimme one of those.)

-Centaurs, Floaters, Aliens: If they are kept (and I hope not, though I liked blowing away Aliens with Gauss Rifles) they have GOT to have faster animations. I would wait for about two minutes just to get a pack of centaurs across the frickin' screen. SUCH THINGS MAKE BLACKEN MAD!

I want to see more mutated species that make sense, myself. Mutated rats that get spiked tails and big, big teeth? Okay, that's kinda lame. But I've been playing the original Parasite Eve, and my mind's stuck on it.

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 4:45 am

Why not some non-genetically altered critters like horses? Were they all wiped out during the war?

Blacken · Post by **Blacken** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 5:02 am

How much do you want to bet that they'd come out unscathed by radiation? I mean, look at the cows.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 7:10 am

They'd probably be a bit skinnier and a bit bigger, but there could be horses. Like the dogs.

Mabye if you found a ranch, and there was horsemeat.

Ghetto Goose · Post by **Ghetto Goose** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 7:52 am

The "aliens" or wannamingos had a built in genetic code that made em die soon after they were made.

and in fo2 you killed the eggs, so therefore, no more mingos.

The First rule for fo3 critters is to dismiss any and all information from FoT.

-no hairy Deathclaws, or "Sheepclaws"

-no Beastlords

-no Behemoths(but reavers in general are fine, since they've been around since fo1, look at one of the loading screens)

-no bigass wasps

-Robots are ok, but not super-advanced ones.

Heres some things that would make sense:

-Frogs/Other creatujres of amphibius nature near the coasts.(Frogs tend to show the first signs of radiation, like the two legged ones, two headed ones, and therefore would be the first to adapt to the radiation)

-Mini-Bosses, like, Momma Deathclaws, or a Huge Robotic Complex thats commanded by a central computer.

-Chameleon-ish like creatures with really good sneak/steal skills.

sound good?

FireWolf · Post by **FireWolf** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 11:17 am

I think Deathclaws should be exceptionally rare. they should be incredibly hard to kill with high agility and tough skin. but i agree that they should not be the only big threat in the wastes of fo3. Bears are an interesting idea.

raiders (while not critters essentially) should be ever present. everyone wants an easy life just taking what they want. they could be accompanied by wolves, dogs, other dangerous yet trainable critters, but lets not go too far and have DC running around with humans.

rabbits are a possibility but they'd kinda fall under the same catagory as molerats.

Horses are a possibility but I dont know if they'd survive the rigors of posc apoc world. but I dunno how i feel about the idea of riding a horse in a post apoc world.

The Shrike · Post by **The Shrike** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 11:27 am

Bears are an interesting idea.

This is an interesting idea especialy if it took place north of california. I am sure that the bears would have survived but mutated. mabey have bigger claws but not like deathclaws have bigger teeth and a slightly longer snout. they might even become compleatly Bipedal.

FireWolf · Post by **FireWolf** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 11:54 am

i think they'd remain quadropeds. they get a fair turn of speed on all fours.

they'd be likely to be bigger, tougher skin, more aggressive maybe leaner with thinner hair. elongated or larger claws. all to stay alive in the post apoc world.

The Shrike · Post by **The Shrike** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 11:58 am

Yeah you're probably right about them staying quadropeds. But I like the leaner more agressive balding bear idea.

Ghetto Goose · Post by **Ghetto Goose** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 12:03 pm

Shrike:
A. Bears would probably be found more towards the midwest.
B. Cali would be nuked more than the midwest.

FW:
Deathclaws are gonna be smarter, and therefore more rare, so you're right on that part. But with this intelligence they'll become more civil towards peaceful humans. The DC's are bound to remember the Chosen One for saving them, and if you are offspring of Him in this game, are gonna be ESPECIALLY nice to you.

Horses? HORSES? you remember seeing much grass in the Fallouts besides Vault City?

Not many surviving critters wouldnt have some kind of mutation.

Centaurs and Floaters were creations of the Master and since the FEV seems to embue organisms w/extraordinarily long lifespans there could still be a few left around in FO3, even if we assume the standard ca. 80 year gap.

bingo. i fully agree.

Centaurs and Floaters were creations of the Master and since the FEV seems to embue organisms w/extraordinarily long lifespans there could still be a few left around in FO3, even if we assume the standard ca. 80 year gap.

They probably did that because knocking someone airborne and watching them tumble was harder to animate.

or have some crabs from the sea start using empty power armour as shells.

this is a great idea IMO, the player killed so many enclaves near the coast/Navarro.

Same with other critters, like mabye 3 headed brahmin, or brahmin with no heads?

...wtf?

Since it's getting a bit less apocalyptic, mabye more critters could be domesticated like pet geckos, deathclaw babys as guard-dogs or mabye even spore pants as low-tech tribal turrets.

maybe not the pets, but the spore plant idea i like.

But not get to far, we don't want deathclaws wearing tuxedos yet, or 30 foot monkeys with 8 arms and laser beam eyes. A few new critters, mabye a few new mutations and alter the amount of ants in caves.

Note to self: cancel Deathclaw Outfitting store, Open 30 foot monkeys with 8 arms and laser beam eyes Fitting Store.
A few new mutations would be cool.

It seems the smaller animals altered by FEV improve in intelligence and can bread better, while larger animals (including humans) become impotent and stupid. So by theory there should be more smaller critters and very few larger ones.

Not neccesarily, look at Deathclaws. Smarter and Smarter. Humans though become dumber in most cases, but the FEV wasn't introduced to the whole world, remember?

If we do see new critters, I'm sure rabbits would be good as some kind of swarm creature. Spiders and cockroaches would be welcome to (the roaches should differ slightly from the fo:t ones though)

Bingo.

FireWolf · Post by **FireWolf** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 1:28 pm

GG, Deathclaws are animals with base intelligence. they can not talk.
you didnt save any deathclaws in fallout 1 or 2.

in fallout 1 you kill a mother and any other DC you meet.
in fallout 2 the talking DC, an experiment of the enclave, are killed by the enclave when they raid V13.

Fallout 3 is going to be in a different area. at least I hope so. I would embrace the movement away from v13 if it is too hard to include v13 in the fo3 plot without treading on too many toes of the past.
In a post apocalyptic world there is scarece food so therefor animals are going to be more spread out in the search of food. this would result in animals being a lot more widespread than if the food availability in a region was dense.

things inhabbiting armour, fine, but i dont want to be seeing mimic troops.

only a few animals should be domesticated... very few. the rest should be wild as hell. means more shit to kill.