Duck and Cover

There are three main problems with FO3 (concerning storyline)
1) MODERNISATION if FO3 is set after FO2 say 80 years technology will advance making it less wastelandy and more like Judge Dready
2) FOT
3) BLOOD LINE the main character has to be a direct descendant of the vault dweller so you can't move away from arroyo to get away from modernisation.


ANSWER to 1) move away from civilisation
ANSWER to 2) Ignore FOT
ANSWER to 3) Massacre arroyo, there by scattering any survivors away from the village.
What do you think? And maybe finding the rest of the survivors could be one of your quests?

Who by?

And remeber the laser defence turrets to.

I think fo3 starting area should be a normal town (vaul-village-town) I'm not to bothered about arroyo just about V13.

Well, the modernisation could be handled in several ways. Making it more restricted and secluded. No NCR, at least in the way it was in FO2. San Fran could be a bit trickier. But you're right, I don't mind if Fallout 3 location is moved away from civilization.

You're right about the solution to problem #2.

And as for #3, I don't see that as a problem. Of course, the game designers have the decision here...

arroyo/klamath could split apart due to social predjudices. the tribals and their primitive culture clashes with the semi-civilized people of klamath ending in less development and more hostility. This allows there to be some fun missions from the start of tribals vs civilized etc.

problem 2 is easily remidied. Fallout tactics was way too extravagant with its "take over the wastes" end scienario. Fact is that it barely followed anything from fallout. the BoS were very very different than they should be and really the whole episode should be discounted as a member of the series and just called a spin-off with no relivance to future content.

modernization isnt too hard to think up a way to slow it. First there's the idea of keeping arroyo on the map but moving the rest of the game away from that area removing any problems of high-tech settlements.

Second there's the good old human nature. NCR would hopefully fall apart when Tandi bites the dust. They could also suffer from raider attacks of severe magnitude. I mean how big a target is that city with all that food and technology? Then there's the proposition of a plague wiping out the people of NCR. with a little imagination the NCR can be discounted.

the other settlements didnt really advance all too much. they were pretty much at the same stage as they had always been. if, perhaps, a little more established.

San Fran is, unless i am mistaken, based on fish from the sea. with the nuke from the Enclave base perhaps all the fish are killed near san fran forcing them to leave the place and all that tech is lost. or perhaps an earthquake? San Fran has them from time to time so it wouldn't be too far fetched.

Well, this buisness about Arroyo being wiped out because its too tribal is a bit silly, since the new Arroyo made by the GECK and the Vault 13 residents (I'm guessing mostly thanks to the V-13 people since the GECK isn't all that terrific according to MCA) is pretty modern. The end slide for Arroyo (as I remember it) basically said that the two cultures merge for a 'best of both worlds' deal. For the same reason, Arroyo being wiped out is silly since it's such a huge and terrific place now. Well, I'm guessing it's huge and terrific based on the end slide and the image of the nwe Arroyo.

As for San Francisco, I doubt it'll be wiped out. Before I go on, let's remember that the Fallout 2 manual section detailing the story of Fallout 1 pretty much shows the Vault Dweller being a goody-two-shoes type, so I think it's safe to assume that the Official Chosen One will also be of a goodly weal. Anyways, if you do all the good stuff for the Shi (Hubologists, mainly), they develop some kind of plant that thrives on radioactivity and returns plant life to the wasteland around San Fran. Thus, it's safe to assume that the Shi are doing okay.

And I rather like the theory of the NCR falling apart when Tandi dies. Supposing her death is shortly after the end of Fo2 and that, once again, you did all the good stuff for everyone (Vault 15 in this case), both Tandi and the traitor whose name I've forgotten are gone. Since the NCR government only really had about five people in it (Tandi, Gunther, Westin, the VP, and that traitor guy whose name I've forgotten), that could make the entire thing collapse.

Of course, that assumes that any Fallout 3 will take place in the same area(s) as the previous games. Fallout 2 managed to avoid having to show the New, Improved, Partially Exploded Southern California to the player by simply having the second game take palce elsewhere. If Fo3 were to expand into perhaps Oregon, Washington, or Nevada, then the rampant, atmosphere-killing technology wouldn't be as present.

And by all means, ignore Fallout Tactics. I still can't believe the intro movie that said that the Brotherhood came from a Vault...

heh i'd forgotten that the Fo:T intro said the bos came from vaults.

I dont think there's a problem of arroyo being too tribal. I just dont favour the idea of it becoming some utopia or vault city like place.

By all means fallout 3 should be in a different location giving new experiences, but i am merely illustrating that you can figure out ways of removing the contraversial technology in the wastelands. I think the best way to remove San Fran is with an earthquake. San Fran seems to have one about every 100 years so it should be pretty easy to destroy all that is there.

Bring on new areas, new enemies, new settlements and new critters.

I agree about the earthquake. It would destroy the Shi and Hubogologist hi tech 'temples'. Imagine walking around San Francisco among the few survivors in gorges and ravines. The Shi and Hubologists would be local rival gangs and there would be no traces of hitech. An earthquake could well cause that.

When Tandi dies, disorder, corruption and violence speads slowly throughout the streets of NCR. Raiders take use of the advantage and raid the place. There would be little remains from the burnt down NCR left in Fallout 3. Only a few survivors support the idea of an united California and try to start a new NCR.

This would be rather chaotic, but it would certainly add some darker atmosphere to the game. In PS:T things were pretty chaotic, I liked that.

post apoc = chaos.

the less law abiding the better. people make their own law.

I wouldn't like it if it took place farther north like Oregon and the like. It'd be a bit to rustic for me.

Maybe for the Arroyo thing, you could have it being attacked by raiders, like the town in D2's expansion. It would give that city under seige feel to it. Maybe the raiders that are attacking Arroyo got the tech to do it with from the fall of NCR.

As for San Fran, the earthquake sounds good, or better yet, have the Shi be doing some high level experiment and something goes wrong and BOOM! No more Shi base with lots of tech. Personally I would like to see Alcatraz in the ruins of San Fran. Maybe in the future they made a new prison there and when San Fran fell the survivors went there.

What about a civil war, there’s nothing like a civil war to course total chaos through out a nation.
There could be some sort of huge battle in San Fran thus reducing tech production and making it more difficult for you to get hold PA and stuff.
The old NCR in an attempt to bring "good news" of a victory against the rebels (who ever they might be) massacres Arroyo.

FO3 could easily have a threat to New Arroyo as the plot. Raiders, drought, floods, earthquakes, expansion efforts by NCR or other mini-empires, the Merchant Guild gets pissed off and won't ship to or from NA, it was accidentally built over a nuclear and/or toxic waste dump, the water purifier breaks... oh wait, that's been done.

I like the raider idea. Basically, raiders have been a nuisance in early game/mid-game in Fallouts so the thought that they are harassing Arroyo or whatever the small village you start from, is quite good. For example, Shady Sands had a raider problem, you had to eliminate the threat.

Raiders is a part of the post-apoc world and it shouldn't be left out of Fallout 3. Spyder07, in my opinion the raiders need no hi-tech from NCR to perform attacks on Arroyo. Raiders are vicious killers with no respect to their victims, all they need is a leather armor and a shotgun. Arroyo or the 'new Arroyo' after finishing Fallout 2, the inhabitants there are former tribals and vault dwellers, they are not used to a violent society what the raiders represent. All they have are laser turrets(acquired from the GECK), exaclty what Vault City had against the raiders in Fallout 2. VC had a raider problem too. I'd like the idea of possibly joining the raiders in Fallout 3, something worth doing if you're playing evil.

Of course, I'm just speculating.

Right, San Fran has an earthquake. Arroyo has a civil war between the tribals & vault dwellers and whoever else is around. Arroyo also gets attacked by organised raiders which form the begining of your quest.

seek out and destroy the raider leader. in doing so you encounter another threat greater than the raiders. (sounds familiar, no?)
possibility, after killing the raider boss or whoever, of becoming a raider yourself and attacking the new menace. or, if it suits your fancy, join the brotherhood once more and attack the new menace. Raider alliance offers more NPCs and combat training, while BoS offers tech and first aid, less combat orientated training.

8O

Well, all right, but the BOS offering 'less combat oriented training?' Never. It's the Goddamned Brotherhood of Steel. They whomp ass for the good of humanity. I would say that the radiers just offer more looting-and-raping oriented training.

brotherhood's primary purpose: safeguarding knowledge and hoarding technology. they are not a particually militant group until they have to be. which is why they have paladins and weapon tech. besides, there has to be some difference between the two groups you could side with and raiders are unlikely to teach you much other than outdoorsman skill, fighting and... well that's about it. the brotherhood could teach some fighting skills but would focus more on knowledge.

or are you basing your ideas on the brotherhood on the abomination known as fallout tactics.

WHOA! Whoa! Let's not slip into such vile profanity.

Anyways, you have a point. However, the Brotherhood could simply offer more technological training, with high-tech weapons and equipment.

But in any case, it seems unlikely to me that they would let you be a raider and that it would be a focal point for the story.

Besides, you could already be a raider in Fo1 and 2. Just shoot up any caravans you encounter.

the main PC charactor should not get his whole game task at the very start of the game.

(Get the water chip, get the GECK)
you should get a "Mission" to either settle the conflict in arroyo (if everyone's not dead) or to stop the raiders. Then you get your fullgame quest. hehe, what if it had to do with russians? doesnt seem fallouty

remember, in my idea the premise for joining bos or raiders is simply to move onto the bigger threat facing the wastes. raiders attack arroyo, you are sent out to find and eliminate the raiders. the majority of your time is spent locating those raiders which once you do leads onto the major threat.

I don't see why joining raiders is such an impossible idea. I mean you could essentially join the BoS in fallout 1 who then helped you take on the mutant base. it'd be the same idea but with an option as to who helps you.

Strapon2 wrote:the main PC charactor should not get his whole game task at the very start of the game.

(Get the water chip, get the GECK)
you should get a "Mission" to either settle the conflict in arroyo (if everyone's not dead) or to stop the raiders. Then you get your fullgame quest. hehe, what if it had to do with russians? doesnt seem fallouty

Water chip and GECK wasn't the main quest. The game didn't end when you recovered them. In Fallout you had to eliminate the mutant threat and in Fallout 2, you had to do the same with the Enclave, and free your people. I agree, you shouldn't get the main quest right in the beginning, leave some room for unexpected twists in the plot.
I think most RPGs have that same pattern, you always get into some bigger plot, it's only good for the story. Only exception is PS:T as I had no clue what the hell the goal was. It doesn't matter much, the game is excellent.

More plot twists would be nice. Just when you think you're done, another quest pops up.