Duck and Cover

How many locations/towns would you like to see in the game?

The type of locations I mean is not just all the locations, but those that really has many non-related quests.

I don't mean places like The Glow, which is a place you come in for a purpose and explore it.

Fallout 1 had Shady Sands, Junktown, The Hub and the boneyard (and maybe also V13).

Fallout 2 had many more (albeit less skillfully done, if I might add).

I myself would like to see 5 or 6 places, because this means many quests but without damaging the quality of those locations.

It would be better to ask about the density, not the total number of towns - it depends on the world map size. But if it wasn't bigger than Fo1 one - just a view settlements and many various not settled places to explore would be enough.

Meths wrote:It would be better to ask about the density, not the total number of towns - it depends on the world map size. But if it wasn't bigger than Fo1 one - just a vew settlements and many various not settled places to explore is enough.

I wasn't talking about density.
Even on a really really huge map, 10 towns would harm the atmosphere.
The creators would just have a problem making up so many charecters and quests, that it will lose on other aspects.

ok. :roll:

I'd much rather have less that are well done than more that are slapped together like some bastard tapestry.

You seem to have an idea of how many towns you would like to see Dan. Let's assume that the world map is as big as FO2 one. How many would be ideal there?

I take the golden midway = 7-10 towns.

The following setup is also annoying:

"Hi, my name's Bob. I'm one of the 4 NPC's with dialogue in the whole game. Want to hear my whole life story? Or would you like to know more about the insect mating?"

Don't you think?

Quantity/Quality must be in balance, both extremes (believe it or not) suck.

Flamescreen wrote:You seem to have an idea of how many towns you would like to see Dan. Let's assume that the world map is as big as FO2 one. How many would be ideal there?

Even on a big map, too many towns can hamper the quality.
On a big FO2 map, I would like to see 6 well done townes.


I agree that the extreme won't be good, that's is why I said I'm interested in 5 or 6 and not 1.

Thanks for the input!
Will prove usefull on my campaigns.

Flamescreen wrote:Thanks for the input!
Will prove usefull on my campaigns.

Anytime, oh-he-who-makes-maps.

Well, figure this. Even a small number of towns may have a large amount of quests. In that aspect, it allows the devs the ability to knit the locations together and provide relationships through said quests AND the character's nature to show in how they complete the quests. Notably in this are Arcanum and Geneforge (perhaps Avernum, I'm playing that trilogy right now). Fallout had this, too, but Arcanum and Geneforge had it more to the core-level of the game.

With more numerous cities, in a tighter density, it doesn't seem to be a wasteland. A larger number of cities but in a spread out method, it reduces the interaction between them greatly to the point of being a bit ludicrous for some. In Fallout, the distance of the Glow and the Military Base made it seem that much more of a desolate location; you really had the feeling of being out in the middle of nowhere.

The best way to achieve the setting of Fallout would be for a few sparse cities in a general location to one another, with enough going on between them to build the setting, and a few locations really out of the way and in the middle of nowhere.

I don't care how many towns/locations there are as long as they aren't 'fill-up' locations. 6-8 towns seems to be OK for me, but I expect some quality locations with interesting quests and persons. It's all those little details that make a town so special. Take Junktown for example, that's a well designed town with its own key persons and locations. It even has it's own story or main quest(Killian/Gizmo). That's all what is required. New Reno in Fallout 2 was stuffed full of everything, you could become a porn star, boxing champion, a made man, but it lacked good design: wright murder quest was completed by running around NR, mafia quests consisted of simple assasinations and Fed Ex quests. Drugs and sex didn't make it 'cool'. It lacked quality, you could clearly see game developers used more time in creating witty easter eggs instead of doing their jobs. That is why Fallout 2 felt uncomplete and was buggy. It also shows what happens when quantity is placed before quality.
Sorry for slipping off topic with the last two lines.

i like towns that are much more varried. if FO1 and FO2 towns are in FO3, they should all be pretty different, junktown, HUB and reno might get kinda similar after advancements. i feel junktown should be similer to how it used to be, and the HUB should be a large citty centered on Trade and caravans. but reno should be only on gambling and fighting shit-- if its even in FO3, personally, i didnt like reno, you couldnt talk to less important people, only the big boys and shit

Wouldn't it be better if they created many towns (like 10-20) with great design, many NPC's, gangs and that kind of stuff and released the games 3-4 months later???? Thats what i think anyway... :roll:

mad_troll wrote:Wouldn't it be better if they created many towns (like 10-20) with great design, many NPC's, gangs and that kind of stuff and released the games 3-4 months later???? Thats what i think anyway... :roll:

Try making a REALLY GOOD town, integrating it with other towns, balancing it into the game, fitting it into the game, etc. etc.

It sure as hell takes a LOT more than 3-4 months. As you add in more items, the workload to fit it into the existing game formula increases almost proportionately to a "saturation point" (like Daggerfall). Therefore, it's going to be quite a bit harder to fit in a location with 19 others than a location fitted in with 3 others.

Of course more quality towns would be nice but that'd be, as Rosh said, a hell lot of work. Sometimes too much is too much. I'd be satisfied with 6-8 towns, if they're done well.

about 6-8 locations would be fine, not including the player begining location.

Some fallout 2 locations were good. If we ever get the map editor I'm sure we could modify it to be more...fallouty. Like replace the deathclaws in vault 13 with...ghouls mabye. And take out all humans in broken hills.

You could make a good game with just ONE town if you wanted.

Actually you could do a fairly playable game with 3 major towns and 5-6 smaller ones. Not all locations have to be the same size. I'd like some of the random encounters to be villages for a change. Don't know if they could do it in a satisfactory way though.

Pyro wrote:about 6-8 locations would be fine, not including the player begining location.

Some fallout 2 locations were good. If we ever get the map editor I'm sure we could modify it to be more...fallouty. Like replace the deathclaws in vault 13 with...ghouls mabye. And take out all humans in broken hills.

You could make a good game with just ONE town if you wanted.

I'm really not so sure you could make Fallout 2 more Fallouty without a hell of a lot of work.

Removing the humans from Broken Hills would be a good start, but you'd have to replace the "Distrustful Humans" with some supermutants that wanted to "Kill All Humans". After all, these guys were created and indoctrinated by the Master to think humans were not only inferior to them, but destructive. Broken Hills in Fallout 2 had too much of that, "Super Mutants are really good guys" vibe to it. It would also be nice if the "Kill All Humans" mutants recruited humans to join their new army - so long as they got dipped.

San Francisco would definitely need to be altered. Having a town of ultra-advanced Chinese people that the Enclave ignored was just poorly thought out. Having them create artificial fuel, when no one before the Great War could manage doing it, was also plain bad. San Franscisco would have been better off as an Enclave internment camp. Say the Shi did land there and were making a home in a burned out San Franscisco. The Enclave shows up, notices this, and puts a slap down on them. This would not only show more of a mainland Enclave pressence, but it would also make sense considering the Enclave would be more than just a little annoyed if they arrived in America and saw a town of their enemies.

New Reno would require some major work. I think going with Tim Cain's original idea that New Reno was a resource city for the Enclave would probably be best. Remove the four gangs and replace them with one gang running a very corrupt town that still resembled a town, a town heavily allied with the Enclave. You'd have law enforcement officers, but they would be more or less owned by the gang. All criminals in the town would be sold as slaves. Jet would be in production, but be part of the Enclave's plot. Most importantly, it'd take a hell of a lot of careful digging to uncover the Enclave's pressence there.

NCR should have lots of problems as any new government has. It shouldn't just automatically own everything south of there. There should be disputes among senators that you can see and get involved with.

Vault City.. You know what would have been nice for that place? If, instead of the chainkin turret fence, they had stripped the vault down and used vault walls as a barracade instead. Have a combination of vault walls and the walls the GECK makes enclosing the entire town. Have numerous guards in the place of turrets.

Saint_Proverbius wrote:I think going with Tim Cain's original idea that New Reno was a resource city for the Enclave would probably be best.

Fascinating. Do you have any interviews/chat x-scripts of TC's original plan for Reno?

One thing about VC: having working laser turrets would also be nice. They're supposedly such a powerful factor in their defence, yet the player can massacre w/abandon w/o any interference from them.

Rosh: That's a pretty good assesment of the underlying principle in town/city development/placement. While FO2 had some locations where you felt like you needed a lifeline (e.g. SAD) I have to say that FO's "out there" locations did feel a lot more lonely/isolated/dangerous.

OTB