Things are looking shaky for the Fallout / Morrowind mod

Kreegle · Post by **Kreegle** » Sat Sep 07, 2002 10:06 pm

<strong>[ -> N/A]</strong>

Remember the <a href="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/xaphod/holocaust/index.htm" target="_blank">Fallout mod for Morrowind</a>? It's a pretty looking thing, and got quite a few people excited. Well, sadly, it sounds like there's a little bit of trouble with it now... A lovely chap by the name of MattCal45 sent in this email:<blockquote><em>I just received this reply from a mail I sent to Xaphod, the team leader of the Apocalypse mod for Morrowind:

In a message dated 9/5/2002 5:39:07 AM Eastern Standard Time, xaphod@ntlworld.com writes: <blockquote>Sorry it's taken time to reply, but Apocalypse has been in a time of transition recently - we're hoping to move away from the Morrowind engine into the UT2K3 engine, though for now we're going into a kind of hibernation.

Most of our original Apocalypse team has moved on to a new mod for Morrowind that's not fallout based, but is based in a unique post-apocalyptic universe.

Here's more information: <a href="http://www.ng-gamers.com/arach/postapoc ... ic.php?t=4

" target="_blank">http://www.ng-gamers.com/arach/postapoc ... ic.php?t=4 </a>

Just bear in mind that although it's switched engines, Apocalypse hasn't gone away.

Xaphod</blockquote>So, for now I'm going to put my faith in this mod team and hope it does get finished somewhere down the road. From what I've read about the team they look dedicated to the Fallout universe. If this all goes through (again, I'm hoping it probably will) the mod will be on an even better engine (Unreal Tournament 2K3). But, this is gonna take awhile (I suppose that goes without saying...). </em></blockquote>Crap, eh? Good luck with the mod Xaphod - a lot of us would love to see it!

Big thanks go out to MattCal45 for passing on the word!

Red · Post by **Red** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 12:43 am

Oh yeah... Hibernation. Uhu, a bit like Duke Nukem Forever?

I mean it's one thing to switch engines... But switching engines TO A GAME WHICH ISN'T RELEASED is simply bad news...

I mean sure they have this deal with MAYA going on and they are saying (UT2k3 people) that the "plugins will be available", but we still don't know how complicated theses plugins will be - let alone know if they'll really be released altogether. And wasn't the orginial art dont in 3DS MAx, which means everything modeled will be lost?

And remember that unlike Morrowind, they'll have to deal with the UT engine to make the maps instead of whatever they were doing now (I have no idea how it works for Morrowind, and I'm gussing you simply import a 3DS MAX room into it...

No one really knows how the engine'll run on machines either!

We already have a "FPS/Fallout mix, and it's called Watesland Half life or whatever... look at where it got? It had noble intentions too.

And last thing I can think of now looks at the whole "RPG mixed with FPS" genre... The only one coming close to this would be Deus Ex... And well, quite frankly, there's isn't all that much RPGing in that game...

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 1:46 am

Not to mention the fact they'll have to completely code a character system with UT2k3. They could at least tweak the Morrowind one if that's what they wanted.

Constipated BladeRunner · Sun Sep 08, 2002 1:53 am

DX is an rpg because you can role-play.
Sneaky, Rush in whatever.
There are very few FPS aspects.

Why is everyone so hostile to the change to the U2k3 engine? I know everything will be lost, but there are alot of oppertunities.
Also, you thought this mod was going to be isometric? Morrorwind is already FP!

Red · Post by **Red** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 2:04 am

Yes and no. You can probably take a first person view but it's actually disavatangeous especially if you can have several N/PCs with you, thus it's a a 3rd person game. Well, I never played it, but I assume you can have people join your party. Take Lara... You play that in 3rd person perspective, but it's a FPS... the term "3rd person perspective" is no longer simply a point of view, but it usually means a genre where you control a bunch of stuff overhead and can plan out your attack instead of just jump in.

For Deus Ex... Um.. sure you "roleplay" through the linear plot... It's fun for a bit but eventually you got bored (case of point: I never finished the game). I'd rather watch an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie... I mean come on, roleplaying consists of more then talking to someone and if you please him he gives you a free scope for your rifle or something.
For the paths "given" to the user in Deus Ex, the problem was that you didn't "choose" paths, you just stumbled upon them. So well, personally I just killed everyone (actually I didn't kill them, I made it a point to take them out instead, to make it harder)... So no matter the path, the game amounts to the same. The only other way of playing it would be not to get "cought" by anyone and sneak everywhere - not to say I never sneak... I always sneaked to kill take out people... And if you want all the goodies, you'll probably make sure to kill all the baddies anyway.

For the scripting, well, Unreal's script was pretty versatile, though I don't know to what point it was, and we surely don't know where it's heading with UT2k3 but we should expect enhancements. Of course I don't know how hard it is nor how hard it was to do originally in Morrowind. From what I gather they couldn't acurately reproduce SPECIAL in the Morrowind engine (which doesn't suprise me much).

Let me remind everyone that the "T" in "UT2k3" stands for "Tournament", which means "lame FPS where you kill everyone online" last I checked.

I'm not scared of change. Change is good. But if people can't stick with something, nothing'll ever come of it.

Mad Max RW · Post by **Mad Max RW** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 4:59 am

Why don't they simply admit the mod was cancelled? SO many decent mods for other games are prematurely switching over to UT2k3. Once the game is out they're either gonna split the team in half or quit altogether. Might as well switch it to Doom 3. Dammit people! Use the tools you already have!! Mod teams that "reserve" a game engine will never get anything done. The tools might not be what they expect. Hell, the game might flop.

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 6:09 am

Such is the nature of mods. Most don't make it very far. Those that do go all the way will often suck. Once in a while, we get Team Fortresses and Counter-Strikes, but more often, we get Gunmen Chronicles.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 7:59 am

Constipated BladeRunner wrote:DX is an rpg because you can role-play. Sneaky, Rush in whatever.

CBR, that's like saying that FoT is a RPG because you can use different approaches, e.g. frontal assault, stealthy ambush, etc. While there may be RPG-elements in a lot of games this doesn't mean that they are RPGs.

Red wrote:I'm not scared of change. Change is good. But if people can't stick with something, nothing'll ever come of it.

:applauds:

OTB

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 8:08 am

DX has roleplay elements insofar as you could develop your character in different ways based on what augs and skills you chose. It was still a kickass game for its graphics, sound, setting, gameplay, and, most of all, story, but not even close to being a real RPG.

On that note, why is Deux Ex 2 taking so long? I want it now.

Red · Post by **Red** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 8:18 am

I never saw "tweeaking your cahracter" as roleplaying... You don't really playa role when you choose which implants you add to yourself... Instead you force yourself through a path. It's more of a limitation (and an interesting one at it none the less) then anything in "empowering" your player.

I mean look at Super Mario 3.... You could either be a frog and jump really high (and be impervious to cannibal flowers or something like that), use the racoon to fly, or use the flower to shoot fire balls, but you can't be all of those at the same time! "OMG! That's, like, role playing man!" Um... No.

Constipated BladeRunner · Sun Sep 08, 2002 8:29 am

Okay OTB- reverse situation.
Morrorwind is an fp so therefore it must be an FPS!
FT was a dungeon crawl- an offshot of an RPG.
Anyway, I dont wat to argue about this all day. It is just a matter of opinion.
A writer for GameSpy views it as an RPG, a writer from IGN views it as an FPS- it does not really matter, as long as both parties view it as a great game.
Which they should always, always do.

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 8:35 am

Red wrote:I never saw "tweeaking your character" as roleplaying... You don't really play a role when you choose which implants you add to yourself... Instead you force yourself through a path. It's more of a limitation (and an interesting one at it none the less) then anything in "empowering" your player.

This reminds me of a conversation I had w/someone at work:

Coworker: Diablo is a role-playing game, because you play the role..."

OTB: Shut up! SHUT THE FUCK UP! *storms away angrily*

(Why yes, that was the last conversation we had beyond, simple greetings.)

An old term that has survived for this type of player is "roll-player", but I also like another term that didn't stick as well: "min/maxer". So called because every choice in [fill in name of game] is about minimizing their vulnerability and maximizing the damage they can do. Basically they play the same person over and over, only the stats change.

OTB

OnTheBounce · Post by **OnTheBounce** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 8:50 am

Constipated BladeRunner wrote:Okay OTB- reverse situation.
Morrorwind is an fp so therefore it must be an FPS!

I didn't say that. It would be possible to make a FP-view RPG. Imagine playing FO w/o the isometric view. While it would change some of the particular things like how some of the items were hidden, interface, etc., you would still have a RPG since you have a character creation system and world to interact with in greater depth than shooting things and/or flipping switches. Dialogue options - preferably beyond "Yes" and "No" - are essential to an RPG as are the ability to resolve situations in more than one manner.

CBR wrote:...it does not really matter, as long as both parties view it as a great game.

This isn't about value judgements, CBR, it's a matter of simple description. Way back in high school I had a music theory teacher that said something that stuck w/me for about 15 years now: "Bach's Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor is an awesome piece of music...unless it's 4 o'clock in the morning and you have a splitting headache from too much drinking." It's all about what you're in the mood for.

I like tactical games. I like civilization-building games. I like RPGs. But if I'm in the mood to chat w/people in the Wasteland Panzer General 2 isn't going to cut the mustard, and when it comes down to it I want to be able to pick up a game and know that I will want to play it when I'm in the mood for RP'ing because it says "RPG" on the side of the box. I also want to be able to talk to people and say "RPG" and they know that I mean "RPG" and not "RTS" or "Action Adventure Game". I know it's difficult to categorize things, especially the more something develops, but simply slapping whatever label comes to mind first or is fashionable this week isn't the answer.

OTB

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 9:07 am

Red:

UT scripting and modmaking is really quite thorough. There's a number of good mods out that make the basic game really fun to play, namely U4E. There's also a TFC conversion for UT that isn't too bad.

I'll have to dig one of my bookmarks on an Ultima mod for UT. I think it was German in origin, which figures about right since Ultima was *very* popular in Germany. It's looking fairly good so far.

http://www.unreality.de/english/indexx.htm

Does quite have the potential for sucking, but so far it looks fairly good for a mod to try out. It also shows off the mod ability of UT, and I hope UT2k3 has the same or better ability.

Constipated BladeRunner · Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:07 am

Yes, but the BRILLIANCE of a hybrid is that you can be in the mood for shoot-em or roleplay.
It is possible to go through the game with only about three or four rounds, and maybe a few assorted grenades. YOU CAN roleplay, to a certain degree.

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:19 am

Constipated BladeRunner wrote:Yes, but the BRILLIANCE of a hybrid is that you can be in the mood for shoot-em or roleplay.
It is possible to go through the game with only about three or four rounds, and maybe a few assorted grenades. YOU CAN roleplay, to a certain degree.

Being able to lockpick as an alternative to shooting someone is not really considered RPG material. Otherwise games like Thief would be included.

If it weren't for putting skill points into skills, there'd really be no confusion as to what it really was.

By your definition, Daikatana is an RPG as well.

Red · Post by **Red** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:25 am

To continue my analogy with Super Mario Brothers 3:

OMG, I can JUMP over the monsters instead of kill them AND use the magic flute to skip the bosses! Like OMG that's, like, so much like role playing!

Constipated BladeRunner · Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:37 am

Daikatana did not have seven pages of information avalible at any time, more than FO's.
Also, have you ever tried playing it on realistic without skills or augs?

Rosh · Post by **Rosh** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:42 am

Constipated BladeRunner wrote:Daikatana did not have seven pages of information avalible at any time, more than FO's.

More text/information doesn't mean a thing. Otherwise Birthright: The Gorgon's Alliance would beat both Daikatana, Fallout, and Deus Ex.

Also, have you ever tried playing it on realistic without skills or augs?

Irrelevent.

Red · Post by **Red** » Sun Sep 08, 2002 10:49 am

reading novels should be left on paper, not within the game. Some text can help set the mood, but putting too much text in a game simply doesn't help. I prefere reading on paper, and all in all it adds value for the people to buy the game if there's a lengthy explenation of the world in a small (or big) booklet.