Towns more complex

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 12:23 am

I think towns should be more complex.

Instead of just one or two junkys wandering around, a talking head here and there and about 5 quests I think your actions should reflect on a town a lot.

For instance if you wander into a shop and kill the shop keeper and no one saw you, the police will investigate and a dialouge tree will appear. I liked how modoc had the chicken 'mystery', mabye they could have similiar things to this in fallout 3.

mabye every odd town has a major problem that stops it from functioning properly (zombies at night, a plauge, A giant mutant that is 'king' of some midgets on run-wheels)

And towns should be more 'closed' when you first enter them. If they see you with a weapon, they ask you to drop it, if you dont they start shooting at you. Towns should have walls and gates to, wich they could 'lock' you in if you started killing people and police from ncr could come up and kill you.

And if you sell a batch of drugs to a shop-keeper, you may notice some people getting symptons of a chem addiction, or if you drop a shotugn in a playground a kid gets his head blown off. Mabye even if you lock an old woman in her house, she dies of starvation, or if you keep buying drinks for everyone, everyone gets drunk.

I like the idea of ripple effects like this.

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 12:50 am

Yeah, I would rather have less locations and instead have them larger and more complex as Pyro suggests. It would be good to have a fully populated and fuctioning town where nearly everyone you meet has a function or is interlinked with certain quests.

Flamescreen · Post by **Flamescreen** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 1:02 am

Yes, not a bad thought. If indeed all towns had problems, most people should be helping solving them, as you couldn't affort "lazy" people in a world with very few people left to start with. Also I would like to see the possible attitude towards such "lazy" people(could be outcasts of some sort).

Rebo · Post by **Rebo** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 1:04 am

Thats a great idea. I really would like to entertain the though of a "never ending" type game play. If a player could do a quest for his own shop, or whatever (not necessarily a shop, but just a place you can drop things and store things in an organized manner. Maybe shop was a bad word to use...just "house" then. Like if a guy lives in a small house, but the townspeople hate him, if you kill him one night and have a high karma, people just "turn the other way", and you get a house to call your own, see? I think that'd be cool.
~Rebo

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 3:28 am

Yeah, but if you have a high karma, you wouldn't go around killing people at night. That's pure roll-playing.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 4:56 am

I'd like more than just 3 or 4 towns though...you'd need your starting town, at least 2 middle towns and 2 'ending' areas (usually the big bad boss area and a base where you get info and kill half an army)

I'm thinking a game about the size of fallout, with more quests and have it more of a rubix cube feel (you change something and it can alter the whole area)

Every action should have a reaction, here's a quick example of what I think would be cool.

You meet a robber who asks you if you want to help him steal 500 bottle-caps from an old-ladys house.

Do you choose to beat him up then take the 500 for yourself?
Do you choose to go with him?
Do you choose to turn him into the police?

Say you chose the first option. You lockpicked her back door, stole her money and took a shotgun next to the back door. The robber comes back after a week or so and goes through the broken back door. He can't find the 500 and the old lady finds him. She searches for the shotgun, cant find it and gets killed. The town wonder why the house is so quiet and send a cop round. He finds the body and dusts for prints, finding the robber and a mystery print. from now on the town would be more suspicious of 'outsiders', keep loaded guns laying around and set traps on their doors. All because you chose to take a shotgun.

It's this kind of stuff I'd like to see. It would be good in fallout if you got caught stealing the necklace on that quest, and guards on caracans from the hub afterwads would attack you, then you couldnt do anymore caravan quests afterwards. Ah well, it was made 5 years ago.

Complexity=fun?

Som Guy · Post by **Som Guy** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 6:36 am

Spaz wrote:
Yeah, but if you have a high karma, you wouldn't go around killing people at night. That's pure roll-playing.

what if he was a drug lord or some other evil charater. then your charater could feel ok about killing him/her. Like for instance im sure no matter how high karma your charater has they would jump at a chance to kill the first citizen of vault city.

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:09 am

Yeah, but you wouldn't murder him in the night, steal all his money, and then live in his home. You would publicly go and waste him, without any shame, and then become a great big hero. Hooray.

Som Guy · Post by **Som Guy** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:22 am

Well some of us perfer to be a behind the scenes savior.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 5:40 pm

Pyro wrote:Complexity=fun?

No, I'd say good design.
Fallout 2 didn't have 'fun' towns because they basically were "just one or two junkys wandering around, a talking head here and there and about 5 quests" , all your suggestions to raise the atmosphere in-town are good, perhaps not zombies but ah well... I get the idea. Also, stuff like tensions between two rivaling factions in one town, a la Fallout(Junktown, Adytum etc..), would be nice.

/EDIT 1337th post, woo!

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:23 pm

VasikkA wrote: No, I'd say good design.
Fallout 2 didn't have 'fun' towns because they basically were "just one or two junkys wandering around, a talking head here and there and about 5 quests" , all your suggestions to raise the atmosphere in-town are good, perhaps not zombies but ah well... I get the idea. Also, stuff like tensions between two rivaling factions in one town, a la Fallout(Junktown, Adytum etc..), would be nice.

/EDIT 1337th post, woo!

I like the idea of having to barricade yourself into a house though and protect yourself (and a bunch of people) through the night. You'd have to move stuff up to doors, make sure all entrances are covered etc.

I think it would be pretty cool, having to barricade yourself in, mabye run around in the open a bit and blast some flesh-hugry ghouls with a shotgun...

if anyone's seen Tremors, dawn of the dead (the one in the morgue and the barrels in the basement), eight legged freaks and other types of movie like that, I imagine the town would be like that. During the day you'd have to check if any ghouls are hiding anywhere, get ammo and go and see where and why the ghouls are attacking.

It could be a game in itself.

Davide · Post by **Davide** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 8:08 pm

Zombies ! Cool !

I think we need more focus on each NPC story , not just the " help the chosen one save the world thing ! "
Like in final fantasy !

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sat Oct 05, 2002 8:41 pm

No, we don't want anything like Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy games always give you a character rather than let you make one and are hopelessly linear. This is the exact opposite of what Fallout is.

Som Guy · Post by **Som Guy** » Sun Oct 06, 2002 11:23 am

Yes keep falout the way it is. Just find a blend of ideas from fallout 1 and 2 add a new storyline and volia great towns. Fallout towns were more complex and what you did actually effected things. but alas they were always too small. Not like the fallout 2 towns that weren't so complex but very big. So if you combined the two ideas you would get what you were looking for. And no i dont want to move furiture to keep out zomies.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Sun Oct 06, 2002 6:44 pm

Pyro wrote:I like the idea of having to barricade yourself into a house though and protect yourself (and a bunch of people) through the night. You'd have to move stuff up to doors, make sure all entrances are covered etc.

I think it would be pretty cool, having to barricade yourself in, mabye run around in the open a bit and blast some flesh-hugry ghouls with a shotgun...

It doesn't really fit in the nature of ghouls. They may look like zombies, are mutated and have extra limbs and stuff, but they are people. People with severe illness trying to survive in their shacktowns/sewers eating rats and other small critters. I can't imagine them running around the streets at night hungering for human meat. That sounds too much like Resident Evil.

Som Guy · Post by **Som Guy** » Mon Oct 07, 2002 2:17 am

Well maybe that could happen if you ordered too many rounds for everyone a the ghouls bar they would all be drunk and friggin angry at how the "smoothies" treat them.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:31 am

VasikkA wrote:
Pyro wrote:I like the idea of having to barricade yourself into a house though and protect yourself (and a bunch of people) through the night. You'd have to move stuff up to doors, make sure all entrances are covered etc.

I think it would be pretty cool, having to barricade yourself in, mabye run around in the open a bit and blast some flesh-hugry ghouls with a shotgun...
It doesn't really fit in the nature of ghouls. They may look like zombies, are mutated and have extra limbs and stuff, but they are people. People with severe illness trying to survive in their shacktowns/sewers eating rats and other small critters. I can't imagine them running around the streets at night hungering for human meat. That sounds too much like Resident Evil.

What about ghouls led by Set for 160 years WHO HAVE MUTATED TO BE REALLY EVIL AND CRASY AND FLESH EATING AND STUFF.

Nuclear zombies=fit into the atmosphere.

Som Guy · Post by **Som Guy** » Mon Oct 07, 2002 4:41 am

then perhaps they wont be ghouls at all. just zombies.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Mon Oct 07, 2002 10:28 pm

mabye not even zombies mabye RADIOACTIVE GOOEY RACOONS FROM MARS! AAIAIAIAIAI!11

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Mon Oct 07, 2002 11:55 pm

Yeh adn teh D&D ZOmbies wuld roxx0r!111

[size=0]sarcasm[/size]

Duck and Cover

Towns more complex

Towns more complex

I agree