Duck and Cover

Yeah.. the legacy of FoT. How do you think?

Sure, the traps skill needs some kind of use in Fallout 3. The only problem is that in the usual context of Fallout, wherein you're usually attacking a group of enemies, land mines, which are more useful for defense, might not be all that useful.

Well, I always considered the landmines in FOT annoying. You could evade most of enemy landmines when one of your characters noticed them. That, and the fact that weapons are 10x better for killing purpose, made 'traps' skill a bit useless. I'd prefer more door/safe traps, because you'd have to disarm them to move on or to finish a quest.

Setting traps and luring the enemy into them can be fun, but traps should be made powerful enough to kill dumb super mutants in one blast so that people would actually use the skill.

In my opinion a landmine should ALWAYS blow your leg(/s) off.

Kashluk wrote:In my opinion a landmine should ALWAYS blow your leg(/s) off.

Crippled, right? That's nothing what a decent doctor skill can't fix. Or the magnificent 'Load' spell.

No, not cripple... Cripple is when you hit your knee with a sledgehammer. I mean blow... Blow is when you hit your knee with a nuclear warhead.

Kashluk wrote:No, not cripple... Cripple is when you hit your knee with a sledgehammer. I mean blow... Blow is when you hit your knee with a nuclear warhead.

Hmm, ok. But I fail to see the logic in your example.

So the character would have to move around in a wheelchair?
Arr, now I get it: a piratey wooden leg! That'd be cool.

Anyways, 99% of the players would reload and try to avoid the landmine next time. Landmines would still be annoyances then, just like they were in FOT.

VasikkA wrote:

Kashluk wrote:No, not cripple... Cripple is when you hit your knee with a sledgehammer. I mean blow... Blow is when you hit your knee with a nuclear warhead.

Hmm, ok. But I fail to see the logic in your example.

So the character would have to move around in a wheelchair?
Arr, now I get it: a piratey wooden leg! That'd be cool.

Anyways, 99% of the players would reload and try to avoid the landmine next time. Landmines would still be annoyances then, just like they were in FOT.

Yeeeeah, now you got it! :twisted: It would hurt your agility *LI3K H3LL*, you know... And sometimes if the battle has gone right on all other fronts you couldn't be bothered to reload.

VasikkA wrote:Well, I always considered the landmines in FOT annoying. You could evade most of enemy landmines when one of your characters noticed them. That, and the fact that weapons are 10x better for killing purpose, made 'traps' skill a bit useless. I'd prefer more door/safe traps, because you'd have to disarm them to move on or to finish a quest.

So, perhabs if you think like that you have never played with a sneaker kind character in tough guy mode and more than normal difficulty level. They're extremely useful against quards on their patrol routes. Just observe their routes, place mines on them and run away. Watch the results frome safe distance. Hehe they don't even seem to know what hit them.

Traps should be also harder to spot, no doubt about it.

VasikkA wrote:Setting traps and luring the enemy into them can be fun, but traps should be made powerful enough to kill dumb super mutants in one blast so that people would actually use the skill.

More powerful sure they could be, but i used to place three mines very close to each other, in a triangle. When one mine explodes then the rest does as well. Noone survives that. :twisted:

Land mines would be certainly a great weapon for sneaker/sniper chars in Fo3. They would be useful while protecting some cities or just killing things that are much stronger than you (but dumber).

Kashluk wrote:In my opinion a landmine should ALWAYS blow your leg(/s) off

Sure it could, if there were any save/load game restricts that I'm actually against. It should kill you mostly anyway .

There is also something that annoys me. Messages like:

"You were critically hit in your leg for no damage, crippling that leg"

comments?

Meths wrote:So, perhabs if you think like that you have never played with a sneaker kind character in tough guy mode and more than normal difficulty level. They're extremely useful against quards on their patrol routes. Just observe their routes, place mines on them and run away. Watch the results frome safe distance. Hehe they don't even seem to know what hit them.

Effective, yes, but majority of players rather shoot the enemy. Observing the routes, setting the traps and waiting for the enemy to get killed takes more time and effort than gunning them down.

If you'd only have one PC, playing a sneaky character would be a lot more fun and exciting. But in FOT you can have 6 squaddies and a total control over them, so giving them all a minigun instead is more effective and less time-consuming.

VasikkA wrote:Effective, yes, but majority of players rather shoot the enemy. Observing the routes, setting the traps and waiting for the enemy to get killed takes more time and effort than gunning them down.

If you'd only have one PC, playing a sneaky character would be a lot more fun and exciting. But in FOT you can have 6 squaddies and a total control over them, so giving them all a minigun instead is more effective and less time-consuming.

That way gives much more satisfaction. And you save stimpacks . I'm used to compliting most of the missions with minimal number of victims. In some missions there may be even none of them. And those adrenaline rushes while you sneak under the behemoths nose in leather armor mk2. I really reccomend that you try that.

Meths wrote:That way gives much more satisfaction. And you save stimpacks . I'm used to compliting most of the missions with minimal number of victims. In some missions there may be even none of them. And those adrenaline rushes while you sneak under the behemoths nose in leather armor mk2. I really reccomend that you try that.

I believe you, but.. I haven't played FOT for months. I'd definitely want to be able to play a sneaky character in Fallout 3 because I've rarely played one. I think it's an important aspect in RPGs, especially in non-linear RPGs such as Fallout. It didn't quite work well in Fallout and Fallout 2, because you don't get much exp that way(evading battles) and you rarely need to use Sneak skill in doing quests. Same with Traps skill, alternatively you can just take the damage which is no big deal. My playthrough with a sneaky character didn't fare too well. I tried to play a 'pacifist game' but I ended up running away from every battle. :roll:
You can finish both games without violence, but it requires a lot of time and patience.

VasikkA wrote:

Kashluk wrote:In my opinion a landmine should ALWAYS blow your leg(/s) off.

Crippled, right? That's nothing what a decent doctor skill can't fix. Or the magnificent 'Load' spell.

One time I was explaining to a friend how to use all the Force powers in JK2JO. I just went down the F keys.
"This is force push"
"This is force Choke"
"This is force dark lightining"
"This is force healing"
"This is force Quick Load.

???

Yes...Use the force to turn back time and Quick Load.

there should be one or 2 parts in the game were you need to cross a land mine feild to get to somewhere, similar to how you had to get past the deathclaws to get to the gun runners in FO1, but mines shouldnt be very abundant at all, because there wasnt any fighting going on IN the US, only in alaska and canada and such, we only got nuked


so in that case, the mines should be somewere far north near some military base/outpost or former front lines

I don't think it should be a part of the game required to finish the story. Maybe a couple of places could use them.

VasikkA wrote:

Kashluk wrote:In my opinion a landmine should ALWAYS blow your leg(/s) off.

Crippled, right? That's nothing what a decent doctor skill can't fix. Or the magnificent 'Load' spell.

Well, if you're worried about mines in a single player... where people would just "reload", there are several things you could do.
Instead of putting landmines down when designing a level, you can mark tiles to have landmines, which would have a landmine with probability X... so you could make a whole minefield, and every time you reload, mines will be in different places. This would require people to think and figure out a way past it.

Now, if they're too powerful in a single player game, people would keep trying until they get through (keep reloading that is), and that's kinda pointless, so in a single player game, it'd be more interesting to have them be weaker perhaps, or be dodgable (like you step on a mine, and you can decide what to do before stepping off of it, of course, you better hope you don't jump away from it onto another one)....

Or you could have it do something like have chemical effects, putting you to sleep, make you OD, or affect the RP in some way...

thats another issue, the country was hit by nukes, it isnt taking place in bosnia, land mines would only be found in places were a military base was extremely close, as most non-military personel would probably wouldnt know how to set a mine, or be able to obtain one, or blow their fingers off trying to set up a mine, its just silly, do you know a place where YOU can purchase landmines in your local area ?

Well.. the discussion was rather about if the mines should be or should not be included in Fo3, not about where they should be. Actually there were mines in Fo2, but you couldn't use them by yourself - pity, i'd say. Plenty of potential possibilities stand behind them. If there ARE mines in the game and you CAN disarm them, i don't see any reason why you CAN'T use them yourself.

Of course, since US didn't place mines on their own turf, i guess, they wouldn't be too common - just like it had been said - only near some military instalations.

Morris wrote:Well, if you're worried about mines in a single player... where people would just "reload", there are several things you could do.
Instead of putting landmines down when designing a level, you can mark tiles to have landmines, which would have a landmine with probability X... so you could make a whole minefield, and every time you reload, mines will be in different places. This would require people to think and figure out a way past it.

Well, why not :roll: ... I'm sure this would work, not too hard to implement either. This or maybe some save game restricts would solve that problem.