An improved SPECIAL for Fallout 3?

Ezechial_Rage · Post by **Ezechial_Rage** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 12:18 pm

I've noticed a lot of people talk about how the storyline should be or gameplay elements that should be refined with the old games, but what about some completely new things to the SPECIAL system?

I want to hear about some new skills and how the old, somewhat worthless skills could be used in new ways.

-I always wanted to be able to create bullets or be able to reload casings etc. Also, improving your weapons would be pretty cool. Maybe these could fall under repair.
-Doctor/Medic could obviously be united.
-Outdoorsman could be made much broader. Possibly cut out perks like awareness and include them in this skill when your skill increases...

I think both charisma and endurance could use some gameplay boosts.

The traits could definitely be reworked. There are only about 5 that I seriously consider when making a character. Some of them don't have enough affect on gameplay and others give you the short end of the stick if you take them.

Any new ideas are welcome here. I look forward to seeing what everyone else has to say.

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:03 pm

Well, all attributes should be balanced in Fallout 3, instead of making INT a uber attribute. I'd like the attributes to have more impact on the game, so that every game is different with every kind of character.

The skills were unbalanced in Fallout and Fallout 2 too, some being good and some totally useless. I never needed throwing, first aid(and doctor), sneak, traps and gambling skills. Outdoorsman and barter skills were pretty useless too. In Fallout 3, the skills need to be thought again, possibly merging first aid and doctor and improving the thief skills and removing some skills if they still are useless.

Same with perks and traits too. Especially the traits need to be balanced, as you suggested.

I'd like a skill system where you learn new tricks when your skills gets higher(ala Unarmed), instead of bigger chance of success. For example, you could steal almost anything in Fallout with a Steal skill of 40%, if you kept trying. Same with lockpick, unless you managed to jam the lock. :roll: I think it'd be interesting to learn to set more lethal traps when you improve your Traps skill beyond a certain level.

I guess that's all I can think of at the moment.

Constipated BladeRunner · Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:24 pm

Wait.
Are you suggesting Fo3 play like 3rd Ed. AD&D?

VasikkA · Post by **VasikkA** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:26 pm

Constipated BladeRunner wrote:Wait.
Are you suggesting Fo3 play like 3rd Ed. AD&D?

No. What parts are suggesting that?

Ezechial_Rage · Post by **Ezechial_Rage** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 4:30 am

I think what Vasikka is trying to say is that after a while is becomes rather pointless to keep raising a skill. If there were new techniques as your skill raised, then raising a skill above the 150 or so mark might actually be useful. It would also make for more customizable characters........ If 3rd edition AD&D is somehow similar to that, maybe they did something right.

Constipated BladeRunner · Sat Nov 16, 2002 5:01 am

An interestin point, but than again, I do not really want to change Special that much.
How about this? Say, you have lockpick. With a very high roll, you could not only open it, you could keep the lock and sell it, or use it.
Or with guns. Why not begin adding chances to criticals after about 110%?
I liked Prov's observation on the Doctor/First Aid in FOT. I also belive that the way FOT (first aid is in the middle of combat, doctor is afterward) is an alternative to getting rid of the skill.

Ezechial_Rage · Post by **Ezechial_Rage** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 5:13 am

I always thought that the doctor/medic skills were far too similar too each other. The only big difference is that with doctor you can heal broken limbs and such. I look at it this way. You only get 3 tag skills in the game(4 if you take the perk), so if you wanted your character to be a healer, you'd have to put 2 just so you can be decent at your profession. Why not just work up to being able to treat broken limbs or gouged eyes? I'd suggest a new healing skill that as skill increases, you're able to heal yourself repeatedly more times. Also, when you get proficient enough you can treat the more serious injuries. It just makes more sense that you'd start out more as a medic and work your way up to "doctor" status.

Constipated BladeRunner · Sat Nov 16, 2002 5:21 am

Good point, but why not have First Aid heal, and Doctor heals broken x part of body.
However, the consiqunses should be more sever. Say for instance gaingreene, or some other infection.
I know, I am making up random excuses to not change Special in FO3. Sue me.

Megatron · Post by **Megatron** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 6:57 am

I think it's fine as it is, just requires some re-working for the useless skills.

Doctor and first aid can be merged into one. If not make first aid apply to yourself and healing at least 10 hp+. But doctor can remove bad stats, like broken bones but not add any HP.

Gambling-Add more gambling areas. Mabye in at least every town you can bet on something, and the pay-outs are actually worth-it.

Traps-This is pretty crappy. Not enough stuff is trapped, and you can't actually plant traps. Mabye if they included a bunch of cool gadgets like trip-wires with grenades, and allowing you to operate stationary weapons and cause diversions. It has to be worthy enough to make you pick it over big-guns or energy weapons

Outdoorsman-This is ok, but it could be better. Mabye the maps for random encounters with outdoorsman at 20% and below are just flat areas of land with no cover and hordes of dangerous enemys that have no inventory. Something like irradiated mantises, or fire-geckos. As it gets higher the maps get more complex, and add funner enemys to fight that have a lot of stuff lying around. Also it could help you do extra damage to critters, higher resistance to poisen and travelling time on the world map that is noticeable.

Science-mabye enable the use of making chemicals. Wander around the wasteland gathering organic material to make batches of drugs, poisons and explosives.

All of the skills need to be re-done so you have to make the choice. You can easily complete the gae by choosing small guns, energy weapons and speech. It would be 10x harder by choosing traps, outdoorsman and science.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 7:10 am

I don't think doctor and first aid should be combined, but rather made somehow cumaltive.

Being skilled in first-aid makes you able to heal yourself and others, and possibly save their lifes.

Being a doctor is having real knowledge.
The jet thing is a good example of this. Someone skilled in first aid shouldn't be able to understand how to create an antidote. A doctor with knowledge in Biology and Chimestry is a whole different thing.

The main problem with this idea is that a player would have trouble distrbuting the skill points between the two skills.
Therfor, there should be some connection with them, like every 5 points in doctor gives you one in first aid.

Som Guy · Post by **Som Guy** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:16 am

Ezechial_Rage wroe:
but what about some completely new things to the SPECIAL system?

I will kill you for even suggesting that ! :mad: Personally I think SPECIAL is perfect.

Spazmo · Post by **Spazmo** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:19 am

Pyro, Science as it has been used in Fallout 1 and 2 is, in my opinion, just fine. Its applications are perfectly logical and the designers placed numerous opportunities to use the Science skills.

Ezechial_Rage · Post by **Ezechial_Rage** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:24 am

I'm not saying that we should tear the guts out of the game here. I like most aspects of the SPECIAL system how it is, but I think that there's always something to improve upon. I don't understand why people are trying to defend the system like their little sister. Give me a break. There's a reason why developers want to make sequels (other than making money) which mostly consists of developing and progressing new ideas to make a better game.

Som Guy · Post by **Som Guy** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:28 am

Well the only way to change SPECIAL without butchering it is to change skills and thats it. No formula changing or anything like that. And yes we want int and agi to be awesome stats like always.

Ezechial_Rage · Post by **Ezechial_Rage** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:36 am

I don't think that Agility was ever really overpowered..... nor did I see anyone here suggesting that it be changed. Intelligence could be toned down a little bit so that skill points might be partly based on something else. Wouldn't you like it if you had 10 quality traits that you'd consider choosing instead of just the usual few? I think that doing that would only add more customization to your character... and that's an essential part of Fallout by my standards. I wouldn't be here if I didn't think that the Fallout games weren't great, but they're still far from being perfect.

Som Guy · Post by **Som Guy** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:47 am

Agility was never overpowered really but it was needed. AP was the biggest aspect of combat. If you had less than 4 AGI you wouldn't be able to create any type of combat charater.

Ezechial_Rage · Post by **Ezechial_Rage** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:52 am

It seems like everybody thinks the gambling skill is worthless. If you get it to the 140-150 range you can sit in a casino all day and get as much money as you want. I found it rather helpful on one character I played, but in a way it was broken. Either it didn't do anything for you at all or after you hit the threshhold, you get all the money you ever want. I think there needs to be a little bit more of a transition.... and higher stakes gambling would be a lot more fun.

Som Guy · Post by **Som Guy** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:00 am

item gambling would be nice to see

Ezechial_Rage · Post by **Ezechial_Rage** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:12 am

They did have Tragic cards

I laughed my ass off when i got to that part of the game.... too funny.

Som Guy · Post by **Som Guy** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 10:35 am

Well i really couldn't laugh considering I used 62% of my paychech to buy Magic cards that week.