Duck and Cover

I was thinking that maybe it would be good if you could pick a weapon type at the beginning of the game and be able to stick with that or use that the whole way through. Meaing you could pick, lets say, energy weapons and be able to use them from the start.

So then I thought what weapons could you get at the beginnning that would be big guns or energy weapons? Well I"m not so sure about the energy weapons, but for the big guns it might be cool to get a potato gun and launch rocks at people. And maybe some toaster zapper thingy for the energy weapons....

So how 'bout it?

You can be quite skilled in Energy Weapons from the start. It's a question of finding them.

Well yeah but how many times have you played a character that's only skilled in energy weapons?

There's no problem here. Energy weapons are scarce and shouldn't be handed out to first-level characters. You just have to plan ahead and develop two combat skills.

So what you're saying is you don't want to have the option to play as a energy weapons only character... even if that means your early weapons are really weak? (I can't imagine a super toaster energy gun doing too much damage)

Think about it, at the end of the game energy weapons are the best, right before that big guns are, then before that small arms, and at the very beginning of the game unarmed/melee weapons are the best.

So playing a energy weapons only guy would mean that you are underpowered until the end of the game where the really powerful energy weapons become availble.

No I don't think so. One of the interesting things about character development in fallout is that you had to wiegh out do I want to have a powerful character now or later. Things shouldn't be completely balanced. Big guns skill should be more important than unarmed in the late game, but Melee should be a more valuable skill the energy weapons early in the game. Though all skills should have some use in the late game, some just more than others.

Rad_Man wrote:No I don't think so. One of the interesting things about character development in fallout is that you had to wiegh out do I want to have a powerful character now or later. Things shouldn't be completely balanced. Big guns skill should be more important than unarmed in the late game, but Melee should be a more valuable skill the energy weapons early in the game. Though all skills should have some use in the late game, some just more than others.

Yeah that's exactly what i said... so why did you say "no I don't think so"

I voted for the last option.

But *someone* deleted it, so if you didn't see it yet, don't worry. You didn't miss anything.

Yeah, whatever.

Carry on.

paynetothemax wrote:

Rad_Man wrote:No I don't think so. One of the interesting things about character development in fallout is that you had to wiegh out do I want to have a powerful character now or later. Things shouldn't be completely balanced. Big guns skill should be more important than unarmed in the late game, but Melee should be a more valuable skill the energy weapons early in the game. Though all skills should have some use in the late game, some just more than others.

Yeah that's exactly what i said... so why did you say "no I don't think so"

What i mean is that that energy weapons/big guns only charcters shouldn't be fesible because those are "late game" skills. I don't think you should have an energy only weapons charcter, because than it would be easy to have 200% in energy weapons in late game because thats all you put it too. But i didn't like in fallout2 when you forced to use melee weapons in the begining. Small guns is an early/mid game skill in my mind. The should be some good small guns around the end of the game but not quite as powerful as the big or energy guns and no energy weapons intill late in the game.

Then again, people who focus on small guns exclusively shouldn't be punished for their choice by making their character unviable in the late game. This was a problem in FO1, where those who didn't use the Turbo Plasma Rifle were more or less toast (okay, the minigun got the job done too, but hey). In FO2, unarmed and melee combat was much improved so that it could be useful later on with more powerful attacks for unarmed and weapons for melee, although the ripper, which existed in FO1, made melee a viable path. I think FO1 had super sledges, too. As for small guns, they added the Gauss Rifle, which is very powerful, but still uses the small guns skill, being a more-or-less conventional rifle.

It would be nice if they really limited the guns for once and have a lot more low tech post-war home made weapons, making you have to search very hard for another pre-war weapon or ammo. But then I guess that wouldn't be very Fallouty would it : )

This is one of my pet peeves, that so many games, not just RPGs, start you out with no or a few crap weapons. Then you spend the rest of the game on a treasure hunt and you end up with more weapons/ammo that you can carry and if you're like me you end up only using one or two of them. I played through Fallout first time, using mainly the .223 pistol and the assault rifle.

If it's done as part of the plot then ok, but so many games designers do it because, that's the way games have always been made. Take Fallout 2, Halflife and Planescape Torment for example, in all three games you start out poorly equipped but that's okay it's done as part of the plot and in a believable way. Fallout, Icewind Dale and Jagged Alliance 2 on the otherhand start you out poorly equipped in situations that don't make sense, other than that's the way it's always been done. I'd rather they find some other way of marking your progression through the game than just making more and more better weapons/armour available. It's one of the things I like about Deus Ex, that there are so few types of weapons in the game, and most of them are available in the first few missions.

Rad_Man wrote:What i mean is that that energy weapons/big guns only charcters shouldn't be fesible because those are "late game" skills. I don't think you should have an energy only weapons charcter, because than it would be easy to have 200% in energy weapons in late game because thats all you put it too. But i didn't like in fallout2 when you forced to use melee weapons in the begining. Small guns is an early/mid game skill in my mind. The should be some good small guns around the end of the game but not quite as powerful as the big or energy guns and no energy weapons intill late in the game.

So what you're saying is there is a "correct" way of playing the game huh is that what you're saying? If it is, why don't you go jump in a lake P:

Spazmo wrote:Then again, people who focus on small guns exclusively shouldn't be punished for their choice by making their character unviable in the late game. This was a problem in FO1, where those who didn't use the Turbo Plasma Rifle were more or less toast (okay, the minigun got the job done too, but hey). In FO2, unarmed and melee combat was much improved so that it could be useful later on with more powerful attacks for unarmed and weapons for melee, although the ripper, which existed in FO1, made melee a viable path. I think FO1 had super sledges, too. As for small guns, they added the Gauss Rifle, which is very powerful, but still uses the small guns skill, being a more-or-less conventional rifle.

This is what I"m talking about, making it so that every weapon catergory is a viable path and can be played exclusivly or in tandum with the others.

It's about having choices.

And very good points requiem_for_a_starfury.

Dan wrote:But *someone* deleted it, so if you didn't see it yet, don't worry. You didn't miss anything.

:'(

paynetothemax

Well I"m not so sure about the energy weapons, but for the big guns it might be cool to get a potato gun and launch rocks at people. And maybe some toaster zapper thingy for the energy weapons....

requiem_for_a_starfury

It would be nice if they really limited the guns for once and have a lot more low tech post-war home made weapons, making you have to search very hard for another pre-war weapon or ammo. But then I guess that wouldn't be very Fallouty would it : )

I like the idea of "improvised munitions". One of the complaints I have for FO2 was that there was WAY to much stuff available. I mean, where is the manufacturing capability in the wasteland that can crank out all those weapons, ammo, drugs, etc.

Of course the Mordino's were making Jet, and the Enclave must have manufacturing facilities, but that doesn't account for the proliferation of all the equipment found in what should be a resource scarce wasteland.

Make supplies rare and expensive, like they should be in that kind of environment. Make skills like unarmed, melee, and barter really worth investing in.

paynetothemax wrote: So what you're saying is there is a "correct" way of playing the game huh is that what you're saying? If it is, why don't you go jump in a lake P:

Not exacatly what I am saying is there are hard ways to play and easier . Like right now I am playing a character from FO1 with 1 intellingence. It's possible but quite difficult. I suppose you could have some earlier on energy weapons, but I think that would take a way from the exicitment when you get you get your first energy weapon.

Evil Guru wrote: I like the idea of "improvised munitions". One of the complaints I have for FO2 was that there was WAY to much stuff available. I mean, where is the manufacturing capability in the wasteland that can crank out all those weapons, ammo, drugs, etc.

I agree with this. If any thing a thought that FO2 should have had less advanced equipment because most of the pre-war stuff would be gone. It also seemed that in FO1 they explained were most of the stuff came from, i.e. Brotherhood and Gun Runners. Where in FO3 it was just there.

Rad_Man wrote:Not exacatly what I am saying is there are hard ways to play and easier . Like right now I am playing a character from FO1 with 1 intellingence. It's possible but quite difficult. I suppose you could have some earlier on energy weapons, but I think that would take a way from the exicitment when you get you get your first energy weapon.

Why on earth would you feel excitement when you get your first energy gun? It's just another gun.

And there's a difference between hard and impossiable. You see there are NO energy weapons in the early part of the game (specifically refering to FO2 here), you have to wait until the later parts of the game to find them. I don't think it should be that way. I think you should be able to get a gun that's classifide as big guns or energy weapons in the early part of the game. Now, for balance reasons they would be better darn bad weapons, bested by the unarmed/melee or small arms of that specfic stage in the game, but later on in the game you are rewarded by having a high skill in the, now in this stage of the game, better weapons.

I think that any item/weapon etc, barring items specifically needed to complete a quest or objects of/reward for a quest, should be randomly available at any point in the game. But to keep game balance or for things still to remain interesting, there should be constant checks to see if you have found such an item. If so then you will not be able to find another such item until you have reached certain points in the game, either area or exp. level.

For example, you might find an old abandoned fallout shelter beneath a ruined house. Inside you find several storage lockers, the contents of which will be randomly generated and you could find anything from an empty locker to a gauss pistol and a couple of clips. If you did find a gauss pistol then you wouldn't find any more ammo or an equally classed weapon until you reach a high-tech area like the BOS, Enclave or Vault City and met certain level requirements.

Then you'd have an uber weapon, but limited opportunity for it's use, once all the ammo was gone you'd not be able to resupply until you'd reached a situation that fit within the plot.

Also I favour combining the firearms skills into one or two skills. Either a general 'Firearms Skill' or a 'Small Arms' and a 'Heavy Weapons Skill' or something along those lines. The use of advanced pre-war weapons, such as mini-guns or energy weapons, would require special training giving you special traits and perks. For example Automatic Weapons, Energy Weapons, Sniper etc which would boost your chances to hit, reduce the amount of action points need to aim and fire and also make reloading quicker. Your Science and Repair skills would also play apart in the care and maintence of your weapons, requiring you to have to keep those skills up to date as well. If your Science and Repair skills didn't meet the requirements of the weapon then you'd be more liabable to jamming, mis-fires and having the weapon explode in your face.

For what ever type of pre-war weapon you find ammo should be scarce, simple weapons like bows, crossbows, sling shots etc would have a near unlimited amount of ammo available.

Unarmed and Melee skills should also have special traits etc, you'd start with a basic knowledge of brawling, but be able to be trained in martial arts, boxing, wresting and knife fighting/throwing etc. With ammo really scarce these skills would become invaulable in close combat situations such as in caves, buildings and towns.

I also think your inventory should be split up into sections, based on what you're wearing. If you just have a vault suit on(assuming they're too tight to have pockets) then you'd be limited to what you can carry in your hands or tie to a belt or slung over your shoulder, this would make string and rope real important to find and keep. If you are wearing clothes with plenty of pockets then your inventory space would increase, even more so if you find a backpack, kitbag or satchel etc. You'd be limited as to how many weapons and how much ammo you could carry due to room (as well as weight) available in your inventory. You could carry a couple of pistols/knives in holsters/sheaths or tucked into your belt or in a shoulder rig. But you'd be limited to how many large weapons you could carry, one in your hands and one on a sling? Weapons kept out of reach in the backpack would cost extra AP to equip in combat, and if you had a rifle and needed to equip a pistol you'd either have to drop it or spend extra APs holstering it.

This way you'd have to choose between carrying that uber weapon with limited ammo or something less powerful but with more long term use.

It's easy to have energy weapons in FO2 in the beginning. Right after Arroyo head down to San Francisco. Complete Vertibird plans-quest. Voilá, you got yourself a pulse rifle.

Kashluk wrote:It's easy to have energy weapons in FO2 in the beginning. Right after Arroyo head down to San Francisco. Complete Vertibird plans-quest. Voilá, you got yourself a pulse rifle.

Yes and you could also go straight to New Reno and get a laser pistol, but it wouldn't be really sticking to the spirit of the game now would it? : )

So? I don't think energy weapons belong to Fallout-universe in the first place. I've always hated them and there's no way I'm playing a game where I "can" have 'em from the start. No way.

Kashluk wrote:So? I don't think energy weapons belong to Fallout-universe in the first place. I've always hated them and there's no way I'm playing a game where I "can" have 'em from the start. No way.

What are you talking about? Energy weapons are perfect for the Fallout setting.

Think of all the 50's sci-fi comics, there were always those destractive ray guns.

I would like to see energy weaopns as long as they are like the plasma rifle or pulse pistol and not like the pulse rifle, for example.