Okay, so let me get this straight. You got yer mutant humans, which inlcudes the ghouls and the "super" mutants. So how do you make a ghoul? A super mutant is just a normal (irradiated/clean?) dipped in FEV, right? What factor does radiation play in both? Before or after "creation"? How does FEV figure into both? Again, before or after creation?
I always figured that a human who was suffereing from alot of radiation damage and was already suffering from the mundane mutations we know that come from radiation (i.e. cancer, leukemia, etc.) who was given a little FEV and they somehow get frozen in their current state, immortal as a rotting corpse, or ghoul.
By the way, dont ghouls need to eat? My friend thinks that they are essentially undead and do not need to eat to live. Furthermore, I was lead to beleive that a super mutant was just a human who had been dipped in FEV, but some BS about that person being irradiated or not got slipped in, and it all got messed up.
Lemme know what you think or if you know of any "official" fluff. BTW, I heard some mo' BS about FEV mutated by radiation, modifying its effects? Anyone else heard that? One last thing, if those butt-scratching idiots with the gatling lasers who were not too long ago humans who may or may not have been irradiated were dipped in FEV are "super" mutants, WTF is a "normal" mutant?!?! Ugg.
Just spaced it out, for easier reading -Stainless
Mixed-Up-Mutants
Mutants
I originally believed that Super Mutants were those infected by FEV, and that ghouls were those who were effected by high amounts of radiation.
However it seems that the FEV was released into the air, and yes its effects were mutated by the radiation. So ghouls are a result of radiated people infected by airborn mutated FEV, super mutants are anyone who has been dipped in the non mutated FEV, however they themselves can be radiated, or not.
So...a radiated person going in pure FEV, and a prime person going in FEV are still super mutants. The difference is, those who are radiated, seem to have more ill effects to the FEV, such as being stupid, while clean humans such as vault dwellers come out with strength, and brains, like the lieutenant.
In Harolds story it seems he was infected by airborn FEV, rather than being dipped, on top of this he was radiated somewhat before hand probably, which explains why he is like a ghoul.
Super mutants is just a term used to describe what the Master thinks is a 'superior' mutation. Mutants are anything mutant really, even ghouls, super mutants are just dipped ones from the uncontaminated FEV. I hope this explains some of your questions.
Again, just spacing it out for better reading - Stainless
However it seems that the FEV was released into the air, and yes its effects were mutated by the radiation. So ghouls are a result of radiated people infected by airborn mutated FEV, super mutants are anyone who has been dipped in the non mutated FEV, however they themselves can be radiated, or not.
So...a radiated person going in pure FEV, and a prime person going in FEV are still super mutants. The difference is, those who are radiated, seem to have more ill effects to the FEV, such as being stupid, while clean humans such as vault dwellers come out with strength, and brains, like the lieutenant.
In Harolds story it seems he was infected by airborn FEV, rather than being dipped, on top of this he was radiated somewhat before hand probably, which explains why he is like a ghoul.
Super mutants is just a term used to describe what the Master thinks is a 'superior' mutation. Mutants are anything mutant really, even ghouls, super mutants are just dipped ones from the uncontaminated FEV. I hope this explains some of your questions.
Again, just spacing it out for better reading - Stainless
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Stainless
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Ghouls are, as said before, Humans that have been affected by the FEV virus (or should that be FE Virus...otherwise it'll be like the ATM Machine...), even if they have been dipped there is still a chance that they will become a ghoul. The amount of radiation in them affects the outcome of what they'll become. Lots of radiation means they'll more likly turn into a ghoul then a SM.
This is the reason why the master wanted to get his hands on V13, as they were uneffected by radiation (to a degree), and would have a higher success rate of becoming decent SMs.
I'm not to sure on the intelligence lose from the FEV, someone will probibly remember. It was mentioned in one of the FoBs but I can't be bothered looking through 5 or so Adobe files at this hour.
Ghouls are carrion eaters, in the sense they feed on flesh, usually dead, although they don't seem to fussed by eating meat right off the living bone, either (thus why most of the ghouls in necropolis attack you)
And a mutant, in the scientific sense, is something that has been altered genetically, weather by getting sunburnt (UV rads causing damage to skin cells, causing a mutation in their DNA) to getting dipped in FEV (effectivly altering your DNA to produce differnt protein instructions). However the FEV has an adverse affect on Germline cells, making it so SMs/ghouls are unable to reproduce. I'd say this happens probibly by an increased body heat, heating up sperm to suck a degree they die.
Also, feel free to hit the enter key when you post those 15+ posts, as it is really difficult to read along sometimes.
This is the reason why the master wanted to get his hands on V13, as they were uneffected by radiation (to a degree), and would have a higher success rate of becoming decent SMs.
I'm not to sure on the intelligence lose from the FEV, someone will probibly remember. It was mentioned in one of the FoBs but I can't be bothered looking through 5 or so Adobe files at this hour.
Ghouls are carrion eaters, in the sense they feed on flesh, usually dead, although they don't seem to fussed by eating meat right off the living bone, either (thus why most of the ghouls in necropolis attack you)
And a mutant, in the scientific sense, is something that has been altered genetically, weather by getting sunburnt (UV rads causing damage to skin cells, causing a mutation in their DNA) to getting dipped in FEV (effectivly altering your DNA to produce differnt protein instructions). However the FEV has an adverse affect on Germline cells, making it so SMs/ghouls are unable to reproduce. I'd say this happens probibly by an increased body heat, heating up sperm to suck a degree they die.
Also, feel free to hit the enter key when you post those 15+ posts, as it is really difficult to read along sometimes.
Ghouls from dipping in FEV?
Are you sure that people can sometimes become ghouls from being dipped in the FEV?
I thought that the ghoul mutation was from the altered strain of FEV, in the air. After all, pure FEV is to force evolution, and a ghoul is basically having decay done to the human, not evolutiuon.
Also......Why would the master say. "Mutants are best equipped to deal with the world today. Who else? The Ghouls! Please." He says it Pleeaase, as if saying, come on those pathetic creatures?
Why would he say this if his FEV dipping process creates ghouls sometimes? I also see no Ghouls under the masters command.
Another thing, it is certain that whether surviving with minimal food, Ghouls Do need water, if you take the chip without repairing the pump, they die shortly without the water.
I thought that the ghoul mutation was from the altered strain of FEV, in the air. After all, pure FEV is to force evolution, and a ghoul is basically having decay done to the human, not evolutiuon.
Also......Why would the master say. "Mutants are best equipped to deal with the world today. Who else? The Ghouls! Please." He says it Pleeaase, as if saying, come on those pathetic creatures?
Why would he say this if his FEV dipping process creates ghouls sometimes? I also see no Ghouls under the masters command.
Another thing, it is certain that whether surviving with minimal food, Ghouls Do need water, if you take the chip without repairing the pump, they die shortly without the water.
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Stainless
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Carrion eaters need water too. The human body is something like 80-98% (give me the right, figure...someone...anyone?). Thus eating human flesh would have a decent amount of water intake, if they did it in some strange bizzare method like draining the water from the corpse first (Think of the Freman and their death stills, from the Dune novels)
And why there are no ghouls under the Master's command? I think his comments say it all. He feels they are sub par, and he probibly threw them out into the wastes whenever they occured. Somehow I doubt creating ghouls via dipping would be intentional.
And evolution is a funny thing. Due to large amounts of rads in their system (which is why some had a higher chance of turning ghoul then SM), then their main evolutionary feature would of been a much higher degree of radiation resistence, where as a norm who didn't have as many rads in their system would just become stronger.
And why there are no ghouls under the Master's command? I think his comments say it all. He feels they are sub par, and he probibly threw them out into the wastes whenever they occured. Somehow I doubt creating ghouls via dipping would be intentional.
And evolution is a funny thing. Due to large amounts of rads in their system (which is why some had a higher chance of turning ghoul then SM), then their main evolutionary feature would of been a much higher degree of radiation resistence, where as a norm who didn't have as many rads in their system would just become stronger.
I am still not so sure. I thought that higher radiation count just caused those mutated to have the flawed effects of losing memory, and intelligence.
While those with lower counts, (Vault dwellers.) would get the full FEV effect, and not lose memory/intelligence. This is why the master wanted the vault, so he could have an army of 1,000 lieutenants, all smart, and skilled with past memories.
The master seemed to have a good supply of mutants, and one would think at least one ghoul would work for him if he made them, I mean he considers ghouls a seperate lifeform, as in not created from FEV.
He accepts floaters, and centaurs in the unity, since they are from FEV, surely he would accept ghouls too, if they came from the vats as the army does.
Mutants as he considers them, is anything a product from the uncontaminated form of the FEV dipping virus, regardless of the lifeform being contaminated.
In his records he seems to state that those with higher radiation counts could not have the full glory of the unity, but were still superior beings. As in stupid super mutants.
It just seems ghouls are created from that seperate strain of the virus itself, which was contaminated, mixed with the radiated humans. Not the pure virus mixed with radiated humans.
While those with lower counts, (Vault dwellers.) would get the full FEV effect, and not lose memory/intelligence. This is why the master wanted the vault, so he could have an army of 1,000 lieutenants, all smart, and skilled with past memories.
The master seemed to have a good supply of mutants, and one would think at least one ghoul would work for him if he made them, I mean he considers ghouls a seperate lifeform, as in not created from FEV.
He accepts floaters, and centaurs in the unity, since they are from FEV, surely he would accept ghouls too, if they came from the vats as the army does.
Mutants as he considers them, is anything a product from the uncontaminated form of the FEV dipping virus, regardless of the lifeform being contaminated.
In his records he seems to state that those with higher radiation counts could not have the full glory of the unity, but were still superior beings. As in stupid super mutants.
It just seems ghouls are created from that seperate strain of the virus itself, which was contaminated, mixed with the radiated humans. Not the pure virus mixed with radiated humans.
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Red
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Depends on your view of Fallout.
In the latest Bible we see CA's stance on it (which happens to be mine :P): the ghouls are just heavily radiated humans - FEV had nothing to do with it. This is also highly supported by his instancecs that Harold is NOT a ghoul (as he was exposed to FEV).
It IS possible something else had something to do, but not FEV. Generally speaking FEV has to be taken out of the picture for mutatntions or the entire Fallout world would be limited not to the radiation's Fallout but rather to FEV's release - which is something quite argumentable...
In the latest Bible we see CA's stance on it (which happens to be mine :P): the ghouls are just heavily radiated humans - FEV had nothing to do with it. This is also highly supported by his instancecs that Harold is NOT a ghoul (as he was exposed to FEV).
It IS possible something else had something to do, but not FEV. Generally speaking FEV has to be taken out of the picture for mutatntions or the entire Fallout world would be limited not to the radiation's Fallout but rather to FEV's release - which is something quite argumentable...
...
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Red
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Yeah but there's a bunch of "what ifs"...
First the FEV which was "blasted" into the atmosphere wasn't the FEV as we know it, it was a pre-final-FEV version.
Second some people say that FEV itself might have mutated (due to some undertermined factor, not necessarely radiation though some say it is radiation...)
Third, FEV is not an airborn virus, however vapours still can infect people (see harold), so how exactly FEV might have spread in the wasteland is a mystery to me - but this is hitend to have hapenned by Aradesh (or the doctor ?). Quite frankly I don't trust Aradesh's research much considering his resources in Shady Sands but that's me...
First the FEV which was "blasted" into the atmosphere wasn't the FEV as we know it, it was a pre-final-FEV version.
Second some people say that FEV itself might have mutated (due to some undertermined factor, not necessarely radiation though some say it is radiation...)
Third, FEV is not an airborn virus, however vapours still can infect people (see harold), so how exactly FEV might have spread in the wasteland is a mystery to me - but this is hitend to have hapenned by Aradesh (or the doctor ?). Quite frankly I don't trust Aradesh's research much considering his resources in Shady Sands but that's me...
...
The knowledge I have of ghouls is that they were exposed to radiation when the Necropolis vault door(I can't remember the vault number right now) didn't seal properly, this of course being a part of the bigger experiment by the US government, aka the Enclave.
FEV was a secret project to create a super soldier, there's information about that on many holotapes in Fallout. The Master(back then in human form) came across an underground facility with some other people and became the ugly looking goo he is by falling into a vat of FEV. Later he started to build the Super Mutant army of his. Harold managed to escape the facility but was affected by FEV. The reason why he looks like a ghoul I don't know. You can read more here.
FEV was a secret project to create a super soldier, there's information about that on many holotapes in Fallout. The Master(back then in human form) came across an underground facility with some other people and became the ugly looking goo he is by falling into a vat of FEV. Later he started to build the Super Mutant army of his. Harold managed to escape the facility but was affected by FEV. The reason why he looks like a ghoul I don't know. You can read more here.
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Red
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Oh boy, you got your facts all screwed up...
The ghouls from necropolis come indeed from a vault (vault 8 I think, but I might be worng, it's not really important anyway).
The vault was openned after 2 weeks and so were exposed to radiation a lto sooner (and possibly the FEV Fallout in addition to normal Radioactive Fallout - depending on your own conclusions).
Now for the master - richard grey, only two people survived in the facility which was Harold and him. Both were seperated after whatever accident hapenned. Apprantly Harold didn't actually fall into the FEV container and just inhaled it, as the other one did and just stayed there to recover for a while. He mutated in a rather longer process while absorbing other creatures (which is something else quite weird as this seems to have only hapenned to him and the centaurs... Why is it that t affected him differently? Well, who knows really...
The ghouls from necropolis come indeed from a vault (vault 8 I think, but I might be worng, it's not really important anyway).
The vault was openned after 2 weeks and so were exposed to radiation a lto sooner (and possibly the FEV Fallout in addition to normal Radioactive Fallout - depending on your own conclusions).
Now for the master - richard grey, only two people survived in the facility which was Harold and him. Both were seperated after whatever accident hapenned. Apprantly Harold didn't actually fall into the FEV container and just inhaled it, as the other one did and just stayed there to recover for a while. He mutated in a rather longer process while absorbing other creatures (which is something else quite weird as this seems to have only hapenned to him and the centaurs... Why is it that t affected him differently? Well, who knows really...
...
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axelgreese
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axelgreese
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Umm, that's what I tried to explain but I guess my typing was way too messy. It would actually be better to ignore what I just said and read the holotape instead.Red wrote:Now for the master - richard grey, only two people survived in the facility which was Harold and him. Both were seperated after whatever accident hapenned. Apprantly Harold didn't actually fall into the FEV container and just inhaled it, as the other one did and just stayed there to recover for a while. He mutated in a rather longer process while absorbing other creatures (which is something else quite weird as this seems to have only hapenned to him and the centaurs... Why is it that t affected him differently? Well, who knows really...
Necropolis vault is Vault 12. Here's what FOB 1 mentions(this might be old information):
Vault 12: In order the study the effects of radiation on the selected population, the Vault Door was designed not to close. This is the Necropolis Vault... and the ghouls were the result.
Actually, humans are also completely immune to radiation, that is one of the reasons why the master believes they are best fit to live in the wastelands.Stainless wrote:Carrion eaters need water too. The human body is something like 80-98% (give me the right, figure...someone...anyone?). Thus eating human flesh would have a decent amount of water intake, if they did it in some strange bizzare method like draining the water from the corpse first (Think of the Freman and their death stills, from the Dune novels)
And why there are no ghouls under the Master's command? I think his comments say it all. He feels they are sub par, and he probibly threw them out into the wastes whenever they occured. Somehow I doubt creating ghouls via dipping would be intentional.
And evolution is a funny thing. Due to large amounts of rads in their system (which is why some had a higher chance of turning ghoul then SM), then their main evolutionary feature would of been a much higher degree of radiation resistence, where as a norm who didn't have as many rads in their system would just become stronger.
And Floaters and Centaurs are ANIMALS exposed to FEV, whereas ghouls are humans exposed. Ie, intelligent lifeforms which he doesn't look at like "dogs" but as a threat or just some hideously pathetic lifeform to be disposed of if possible.
Btw, designing the door not to close on the vault to experiment on 1000 human beings..that's a horrible thought. The Enclave sure is sick.
Well, the whole idea of ghouls just being humans mutated by radiation is ridiculous. Radiation dosen't give you longevity, rather it reduces your lifespan. The only creatures that might be effected by radiation in that way are things like insects. All other animals in the game were infected by FEV. This is why they are huge, dangerous, deadly beasts like mole rats, geckos, and (less deadly) ghouls. It was stated that FEV was mutated by radiation and its effects were different. I always thought that ghouls originated from some bizzare combination of radiation and FEV. Radiation obviously has something to do with it, as the door on their vault never closed. It also has something to do with FEV, because radiation cannot make you into an undead monster with a super long lifespan. The one great assumption made in fallout was FEV, or at least I thought so. By the way, wasn't it vault 12 that the ghouls came from originally?
Also, humans aren't immune, but the people from the vaults had undamaged DNA. The people who were outside have damaged DNA, and that probobly didnt help them fight off FEV infection. I imagine FEV was made for undamaged DNA, and therefore the rad damaged genes would be messed with. "Pure strain" humans from the vault arent immune, but they are more resistant in the fact that they arent mutated or damaged, but they do get cancer and leukemia.
