Duck and Cover

I've finally gotten the beginning of IOOI straightened out, leaving the player w/as many choices regarding 'cruits and equipment as are possible, but there were some technical hurdles to overcome.

The main problem w/starting the campaign in a bunker was that the triggers were resetting themselves every time the map was re-entered. Since the first map is the one where you initialize all of the campaign variables, this was a serious problem.

My first solution was to have a "dummy" bunker map that the player started on. The problem w/this solution was that the map was displayed on the World Map, even if I inserted a trigger to cover it and placed it outside of the map image boundaries. This was simply not acceptable. While "third party" and "amateur" are both terms that apply to my work, I'm simply not going to accept having it look that way.

What I finally broke down and did was to have a small map that the player starts on w/o any 'cruits and a single, unimportant objective to accomplish. This then opens the exit grid and the player is to travel to the first Bunker map. (This suggestion was made by JJ86 ages ago, and credit for it goes to him.) While I was trying to avoid it, this seems to be the only viable solution that doesn't lead to having triggers reset.

In my little quest for a solution I discovered something about the core campaign. There were plans to have events that occured after Brahmin Wood affect that map, however, these were nixed. I've known about this for some time, but figured that it was due to the game having been rushed to ship. The discovery was that "Nuke Triggers on Exit" is ticked/checked on the Brahmin Wood map, so it appears that the designers ran into the same hurdle that I did w/regenerating campaign variables.

The problem seems to be w/the "Always" condition, which -- as far as I can tell -- causes the trigger's actions to be executed every time the map is entered. So if you're looking at having a "multiple use" map (i.e. one that is entered several times) you will need to use a Campaign Variable (e.g. CVAR_M02_Mission_Complete) as the initializing condition. Otherwise you have to tick/check "Nuke Triggers on Exit". Er...unless you like presenting the player w/a world which he/she can't influence...

While this issue probably won't affect too many of my fellow Map Rats, I figured I'd toss it out so that in case you have any similar ideas you will know what the deal is.

Cheers,

OTB

Im a little confused here. Let me try think straight and then I'll get around to asking some questions. This is a real brain basher<BR> ---[]<BR>. 8O


1. You're saying that the first mission will always reset when the player returns to it?

BUT! You're also saying that nuke triggers will fix this?

But if you do this will the entities still reset position? Or is it just the triggers that keep working?

2. You're saying that the problem is with always. Is this just with the initial map, or with all maps? First you say that you had to accept the workaround, and then you say the solution is not having always, but don't explain whether the always condition is what affects the first map, all the maps, or what. This confuses my brain.. please explain :)

3. You're saying that campaign variables HAVE to be set in the first mission? Is it not possible to set them as one goes along as they are needed?

4. Do you have to nuke triggers on a map such that they do not reoccur upon reentering the map? Isn't that what preserve trigger is for? I am a bit confused..

[TBC]-PaladinHeart wrote:Im a little confused here.

I can see that, yes. ;)

Sorry if that post was confusing. I've been wanting to post about this for a couple of days. Mayhaps I should have waited until I wasn't so tired.

[TBC]-PaladinHeart wrote:1. You're saying that the first mission will always reset when the player returns to it? BUT! You're also saying that nuke triggers will fix this?

I'm saying that triggers w/"Always" as a condition will fire again, but "Nuke Triggers on Exit" will keep them from doing this.

The problem w/getting the triggers not to reset was that I couldn't use variables to accomplish it. If I had a variable as the condition, the triggers wouldn't initialize. If I didn't set a condition other than "Always" the triggers reset.

[TBC]-PaladinHeart wrote:But if you do this will the entities still reset position? Or is it just the triggers that keep working?

IIRC the entities also reset their position. I can't be any more specific since I quit paying attention to them after a while. My main concern was the triggers themselves.

[TBC]-PaladinHeart wrote:2. You're saying that the problem is with always. Is this just with the initial map, or with all maps? First you say that you had to accept the workaround, and then you say the solution is not having always, but don't explain whether the always condition is what affects the first map, all the maps, or what. This confuses my brain.. please explain :)

I haven't tried it w/subsequent maps yet. (I'm busy tying the missions together into a campaign, rather than just stand alone single player maps right now.) I'd bet that the problem is w/"Always", but on later maps you can always set the variables to initialize based on Campaign Variables, which will keep you from having to use "Always". So this really isn't an issue except on the first map.

[TBC]-PaladinHeart wrote:3. You're saying that campaign variables HAVE to be set in the first mission? Is it not possible to set them as one goes along as they are needed?

This is the way it was done in the core campaign. I can't say w/certainty whether or not the CVARs can be set later or not.

[TBC]-PaladinHeart wrote:4. Do you have to nuke triggers on a map such that they do not reoccur upon reentering the map? Isn't that what preserve trigger is for? I am a bit confused..

If you "nuke" the triggers then the triggers which have "Always" as a condition will not be fired again when you enter the map.

If you "Preserve" a trigger that just means that it won't be used up when it fires. This is useful for things like doors which are scripted to open when a switch is toggled, etc. I can't say w/certainty whether or not "nuking" a preserved trigger will disable it, but it would seem so.

OTB

I just tested reentering my first map. It didn't seem to have any problems. When I reentered all the enemies that died were still dead, the enemies not killed were alive. The shopkeeper continued to function normally, etc.. It was as though I simply exited the map and returned. No identifiable problems but the development on my campaign is in the early stages so something could still go wrong later.

Does this mean that the problem in question is that bunker maps reset triggers? I planned on having towns as bunker maps but if there is a particular problem with bunker maps then please point it out before I try to do so. I would hate to run into an unnecessary stumbling block :)

So the problem is with the "Always" trigger. I'll just remember to use something else, like elapsed time, instead. I have a lot of maps that I plan on having the player reenter and I wouldn't want a few silly triggers messing them up.

Even though I didn't experience any ill side effects of triggers involving the use of the "always" condition, I decided to play it safe and replace it with the "player 1 has more than 0 alive at anywhere" condition.

Now I just need to fix my first town, first mission area, and i'll have a somewhat playable mini-campaign.

Err.. no that doesn't mean im releasing anything yet. Maybe a demo map or two later.

[TBC]-PaladinHeart wrote:Does this mean that the problem in question is that bunker maps reset triggers? I planned on having towns as bunker maps but if there is a particular problem with bunker maps then please point it out before I try to do so. I would hate to run into an unnecessary stumbling block :)

From the testing I've done with the editor, the only difference that I've found so far in regards to having the is bunker field ticked is whether you can save in toughguy mode or not.