Duck and Cover

Pilot could be properly implemented, I believe. There could be all kinds of vehicles - old cars and trucks, ships, trains and railway cars, pushcars, whatever. They just shouldn't be made essential in combat - instead, the skill could let you drive around faster and avoid certain things (as well as giving a few advantages in combat).

Smiley wrote:Hmmm.. What exactly was wrong with it?

Well, except for the fact, if you boosted gamble a lot, you could get unlimited money...

There weren't enough places where it was implemented, the system for using it wasn't very deep, and it had no place in the story. In FO3, gambling could help advance the story and perhaps even garner a few side-quests.

atoga wrote:Pilot could be properly implemented, I believe. There could be all kinds of vehicles - old cars and trucks, ships, trains and railway cars, pushcars, whatever. They just shouldn't be made essential in combat - instead, the skill could let you drive around faster and avoid certain things (as well as giving a few advantages in combat).

Do you really want more vehicles in the games? :roll: If so the handling of them could easily be incorporated under Outdoorsmanship, after all you don't drive around indoors now do you?

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:

atoga wrote:Pilot could be properly implemented, I believe. There could be all kinds of vehicles - old cars and trucks, ships, trains and railway cars, pushcars, whatever. They just shouldn't be made essential in combat - instead, the skill could let you drive around faster and avoid certain things (as well as giving a few advantages in combat).

Do you really want more vehicles in the games? :roll: If so the handling of them could easily be incorporated under Outdoorsmanship, after all you don't drive around indoors now do you?

no, vehicles have a special place in the Fallout universe, separate from Outdoorsman. There's all kinds of nasty terrain that could only be traversed in an appropriate vehicle, for example, and vehicles have many uses in long combat scenes and in larger cities. Vehicles are a keeper.

Splitting skills means either watering out their uses or funneling effort to make them viable. If the end result is more non-combat choices, and not a new set of weak skills, it's all fine and dandy with me.

Vehicles? No thank you.

Hmmm... I'm not sure what I think about vehicles. Sure, they would be pretty useful in combat, but maybe a little too useful? In FOT, keeping inside a car of some sort made it a helluva lot easier to play. At least as far as I got it did.
How would vehicles work in turn based combat anyway? Ok - just got hit with some inspiration here.

Obviously a car / any other vehicle couldn't be moved like a person can move. They would have to have specific arcs of movement, and to turn around you'd have to spend more action points to spin the vehicle around. For instance, it would cost 5 AP (Yeah these numbers are just bull, but whatever) to drive in a straight line, but the further you get away from the straight line the number of ap increases to go the same distance, a little curve to the right and it goes up to 6 AP, and to turn all the way around the arc would cost like 10.
The pilot skill could be used to decrease the AP needed for the arc, seeing as you're more skilled and can turn better without flipping the vehicle over.

Dunno, that just came to me... might not make any sense to have vehicles in FO still, but if there are gonna be, I'd like some sort of system like that.

atoga wrote:Pilot could be properly implemented, I believe. There could be all kinds of vehicles - old cars and trucks, ships, trains and railway cars, pushcars, whatever. They just shouldn't be made essential in combat - instead, the skill could let you drive around faster and avoid certain things (as well as giving a few advantages in combat).

No, Vehicles can't be properly implemented because they don't fit at all.

The chanche of finding any kind of vehicle in working order is so rare, that anymore then 1 would be wierd.

If one might be too much.

Dan wrote: No, Vehicles can't be properly implemented because they don't fit at all.

The chanche of finding any kind of vehicle in working order is so rare, that anymore then 1 would be wierd.

If one might be too much.

Even though finding one in working order would be pretty impossible, making one WORK, wouldn't be.

Yeah it has been nearly 200 years from the war and these loads of parts hanging around, even the books to help poeple.

Mechanics - Working on devices that are primarily mechanical (most cars, lots of weapons, etc.)

That description implys that you would be able to fix a car into working condition. If so, a pilot skill may actually be viable even if it only allows you to get better gas mileage with your vehicle.

Heh, think of the mad caps you could get by fixing up and selling every old piece of junk car that's laying around the wastes Even if you had to cannabalize 10 cars to get one working, that's still a lot of cars you could make.

Smiley wrote:Even though finding one in working order would be pretty impossible, making one WORK, wouldn't be.

Ummm.. AutoZone has been closed on account of carpet nuking.

Choyrt @ IPLY forum wrote:Just be sure that melee is really a viable option. In Fallout 1 & 2 I never even bothered with throwing, melee, or especially unarmed. How do you plan to make these skills more attractive? Will there be less ammo and guns and far more melee weapons? Will melee weapons do more damage? Will being unarmed raise your AC?

And even more importantly, will we be able to play through the game relying upon mostly non combat skills?
_________________
I'm the guy who liked Fallout Tactics.

Anyone find it humorous that the guy on the IPLY forum that liked Fallout Tactics has no friggin' clue how powerful melee was in Fallout and Fallout 2?

Saint_Proverbius wrote:Ummm.. AutoZone has been closed on account of carpet nuking.

Fo1: A guy makes bullets from mushrooms.
Fo1: A group of people, known as the BoS, creates a whole bunker complex, create a powerful kind of armor, a hammer with hydraulics, and restore tons of computers.

Fo2: An oriental doctor implants two sets of armor into you.
Fo2: A machine, underneath a small bunker enhances your abilities.

Suddenly fixing a car doesn't seem so insane anymore, now does it?

Smiley wrote:Fo1: A guy makes bullets from mushrooms.
Fo1: A group of people, known as the BoS, creates a whole bunker complex, create a powerful kind of armor, a hammer with hydraulics, and restore tons of computers.

Your quotes are skewed... Just a certain chemical of the mushrooms are used I beleive as a replacement for normal gun powder... That doesn't seem THAT far fetched. As for the BoS, they didn't "create a whole bunker" nor "Create a powerful armour" by themselves (at least not once the bombs exploded. The T51-b was there before the war, they just fix them... and I can't remember exactly the story of their bunker right now, but whatever it was they didn't just happen to materialize the whole thing post-war.

Fo2: An oriental doctor implants two sets of armor into you.
Fo2: A machine, underneath a small bunker enhances your abilities.

That's why some of us don't like FO2 so much as the original...

Smiley wrote:Fo1: A guy makes bullets from mushrooms.

Since gunpowder and bullets were invented several centuries apart and long before the advent of cars it's a bit different from someone loading their own bullets to repairing vehicles and converting cars to a new fuel source.

Smiley wrote:Fo1: A group of people, known as the BoS, creates a whole bunker complex, create a powerful kind of armor, a hammer with hydraulics, and restore tons of computers.

I thought that Lost Hills was already in existence before the war, the Brotherhood might of expanded upon the original complex and redecorated, but I don't think they built it from scratch. Power Armour is pre-war tech, I'd assume that even if the Soldiers at Marriposa weren't issued any Lost Hills had if not some in stores then the specifications and equipment and spare parts to build some. As for combat Armour and Brotherhood Armour, I've always believed that the reason that Brotherhood Armour is better quality is because it's been manufactured post war, whereas combat armour has been through the holocaust, years in the wasteland and probably numerous gun fights. The Brotherhood probably have the equipment needed to repair vehicles but what about fuel?

Smiley wrote:Fo2: An oriental doctor implants two sets of armor into you.
Fo2: A machine, underneath a small bunker enhances your abilities.

Suddenly fixing a car doesn't seem so insane anymore, now does it?

Surgically implanting ceramic or steel plates is a whole different thing from machining new parts or repairing old ones, I'm a doctor Jim, not a motor mechanic! Likewise the computer in San Fran.

Even if people do repair vehicles, there's still the question of fuel, pre-war how many vehicles ran on fusion power? And how many of those survived intact enough to be repaired or to supply usable spare parts?

If there have to be vehicles, then they should be more of the Brahmin pulled car boots type, or maybe some raider buggy/land yacht hybrid.

Getting a vehicle to run on alternative fuel isn't that difficult.

All the vehicles ran on fusion power, it said that in one of the fallout bibles. The whole war was more or less started when china and the us were fighting over gas, and something happened and the us (at least) made fusion power and converted completely to it. That's why everything you find runs on it (power armour, etc.) and why there are so many fusion cells around.

Red wrote:The T51-b was there before the war, they just fix them... and I can't remember exactly the story of their bunker right now, but whatever it was they didn't just happen to materialize the whole thing post-war.

They did start off with the help of pre-war technology and the bunker, but they developed their technology and added to the bunker over time, rather than regress like the "savages" in the wastes. That was the whole point of all the scribes you meet in the bunker - research, develop and manufacture weapons - they didn't need to resort to cannibalising for their technology.

The Brotherhood armour is probably better than the combat armour the outsiders have because of their constant research. They'd want to stay ahead of anyone else who got their hands on some pre-war weapons.

Considering how advanced they were I'd imagine putting a car together would be easily within their grasp.

The main question is can the dev team implement vehicles properly and balance for them? AND NOT GIVE YOU A TANK AND NEVER LET YOU USE IT IN A MISSION AFTERWARDS, EH FALLOUT: TACTICS? *ahem*

Red wrote:

Smiley wrote:Fo1: A guy makes bullets from mushrooms.
Fo1: A group of people, known as the BoS, creates a whole bunker complex, create a powerful kind of armor, a hammer with hydraulics, and restore tons of computers.

Your quotes are skewed... Just a certain chemical of the mushrooms are used I beleive as a replacement for normal gun powder... That doesn't seem THAT far fetched. As for the BoS, they didn't "create a whole bunker" nor "Create a powerful armour" by themselves (at least not once the bombs exploded. The T51-b was there before the war, they just fix them... and I can't remember exactly the story of their bunker right now, but whatever it was they didn't just happen to materialize the whole thing post-war.

Alright, so we alter it a bit:

They recreate gunpowder from chemical substances obtained from mushrooms.

They rebuild Powerarmors.

They rebuild bunkers.

But rebuilding a car is impossible and weird! And nobody would have thought of it!

As for Fo2, well, you don't see people running amok because of those examples, but as soon as vehicles are mentioned, it's suddenly all too FoT-wanna-be-like! There shouldn't be vehicles in a post-apoc! It's not 50'ies enough! I want more retro! Blablablabla yaddayaddayadda...

ffs...

COMBAT:
-----------
<b>Unarmed</b> - Unarmed combat.
<b>Melee</b> - Skill with melee weapons
<b>Throwing</b> - Chuckin' stuf.
<b>Small Guns</b> - One-handed firearms.
<b>Big Guns</b> - Two handed firearms.

TECHNICAL:
--------------
<b>Computer Ops</b> - Programming and using the operating systems of computers/robots.
<b>Electronics</b> - Working on devices that are primarily electronic (televisions, radios, broken computers, some generators, etc.).
<b>Mechanics</b> - Working on devices that are primarily mechanical (most cars, lots of weapons, etc.)
<b>Science</b> - Physics, higher mathematics, plasma/laser technology.
<b>Medic</b> - First Aid + Doctor

THIEVERY:
------------
<b>Sneak</b> - So sneaky.
<b>Steal</b> - Ye olde pickepockette
<b>Traps</b> - How to make 'em, how to break 'em.
<b>Lockpick</b> - Picking locks 2 tha maxx.

DIPLOMATIC:
----------------
<b>Barter</b> - Wheelin' and dealin'.
<b>Speech</b> - Persuasion, intimidation, subterfuge and pals.
<b>Leadership</b> - A measure of effective influence over party allies.
<b>Outdoorsman</b> - All that nature mumbo jumbo


No Gambling. I presume it comes under Barter? I like that (gambling is mostly useless anyway).

One medic skill is good, as the two seperate skills were confusing.

However, the 4 technical science skills is useless. Computer ops should just comer under science and electronics and mechanics shouls just be "repair". There's no point for 4 different skills.

As for Electronics and Mechanics. Ever seen a mechanic who couldn't repair at least SOME of the electronic systems in a car? No need for two skills. What would a water pump come under if it's wires were broken AND it's pumps? It comes under both skills. Hence, any character who wanst to fix it will NEED both skills. Why not make it one skill and be done with it? At most stages, anyone going for either electronics or mechanics, will fail. You need both.

I like the simplicity of big guns and small guns, but I think there needs to be another one. An assault rifle is two hands, a Gauss rifle is two hands. Hell, even the hunting rifle is two hands. Effectively, small guns will be a waste as it will only be useful for pistols. Pistols = the suxxor, so a combat character could quite easily pump up big Guns to full and ace the game from start to finish. That = not fun.

Science and Computer Ops should be combined. As with the two repair skills, I think one will be useless without the other. I think making science change how quickly you reload an energy weapon or how you handle one seems a bit odd. Knowing how an energy weapon works, doesn't mean you can fire one effectivley in combat, run around, take out a target, and then aim at comething else. You don't need to know how a normal gun works to be able to point it at someone and pull the trigger.

My skills would be:
<b>Small Guns</b> - One-handed firearms. (pistols)
<b>Rifles</b> - Hunting rifle, assault rifle etc.
<b>Big Guns</b> - MORE than two handed firearms. (rocket launcher, minigun). We ain't talking two hands here, the way they hold that minigun in FO, you're using your whole body.

<b>Science</b> - Programming and using the operating systems of computers/robots + Physics, higher mathematics, plasma/laser technology.
<b>Repair</b> - Working on devices that are primarily electronic (televisions, radios, broken computers, some generators, etc.). + Working on devices that are primarily mechanical (most cars, lots of weapons, etc.)
<b>Speech</b> - Persuasion, intimidation, subterfuge and pals. + A measure of effective influence over party allies.

Oh look, it's just like Fallout 1 and 2, but without energy weapons and gambling and with two medic skills.

If it ain't broke...


Fallout 2 also had vertibirds... They fly. As for vehicles, any group that had them, wouldn't give them up easily. I'm not sure (and not too inclined to look it up right now) but a lot of the cars in the FO world actually ran on gasoline (it says that in the opening intro I believe, something about running out of gas). The number that came out fusion powered is relatively low and I believed were for the high-end of town.

If they have the technology to make high powered laser pistols they can use that energy to turn a wheel, okay.

BoS could easily make a transport device, but they don't get out much and the terrain isn't level street top, there are mountains, rocks, rumble etc...

We are dealing with burnt desert land, civilian cars don't drive well in it. Most places are isolationist, random traders don't have the technology, money, knowledge or dedication for upkeep, it isn't suited for desert terrain, and it would make them a bigger target for thieves and raiders.

And the world reduced to walking travel is cool.

"Computers ops" includes programming and such, I guess it could stand on its own but it could use a better name.