Duck and Cover

Haven't been able to get far into the map yet (why, exactly, you'll find out by reading more), but I thought I'd share some preliminary thoughts about the latest addition to the FOT SP map scene.

Firstly, I think the map looks damn good, although it's mostly OTB's doing instead of Req's, but hey!

I also like the new sprites for items (although, IMO, the metal/tesla/BoS armor all look too much alike). Note to Req: I found some ammo that not only has no sprite, but it has no name or description. Found it off of a dead Wright Family Soldier... I think. Check all the actors/containers in the beginning of the map (the ammo I found was x6). Also, Req, the 10mm pistol lacks a sprite. However, there IS a 10mmPistol.spr file in yer zip, so I opened up the ent and saw that the image path is: sprites/NewSprites/New weapons/Fallout Weapons/pistols/10mmPistol.spr. Is that the problem?

Anyway, so far the gameplay is pretty good. I've only been in one fight so far (those who've played it can probly guess which one), and it was interesting to say the least. I could replay just that one battle several times over and over again and have a good time every time

Now for my major complaint, and the reason I can't play the map anymore: WAY too many blinking/flickering lights. When I was going to the ladder on the main building, my game slowed down to a crawl (1.3 P4 GeForce4, etc.). The FOT engine reeeeeeeeeaaaaally doesn't like multiple animated lights being drawn & redrawn at the same time. Re-post the map to fix that problem (plus one more I'm about to get to), and I'll give yer map another go ('cause I really liked it untill the aforementioned problem).

One last problem: Albert is useless (IMO) in combat. That means the squad is basically 5 people, one of which can't use guns (Simon), so really, it's 4. But then there's Ronin who has no ammo, so it's more like 3.5 (since he has that badass hammer and Power Armor). Maybe I just haven't gotten far enough into the map yet, but that's what I think.

Now, it's bedtime for MV.

Max-Violence wrote:I also like the new sprites for items (although, IMO, the metal/tesla/BoS armor all look too much alike).

Damn philistine go and play the RPGs.

Max-Violence wrote: Note to Req: I found some ammo that not only has no sprite, but it has no name or description. Found it off of a dead Wright Family Soldier... I think. Check all the actors/containers in the beginning of the map (the ammo I found was x6). Also, Req, the 10mm pistol lacks a sprite. However, there IS a 10mmPistol.spr file in yer zip, so I opened up the ent and saw that the image path is: sprites/NewSprites/New weapons/Fallout Weapons/pistols/10mmPistol.spr. Is that the problem?

Will check the ammo, know what I've done wrong with the 10mm pistol but will double check the ammo.

Max-Violence wrote:Now for my major complaint, and the reason I can't play the map anymore: WAY too many blinking/flickering lights. When I was going to the ladder on the main building, my game slowed down to a crawl (1.3 P4 GeForce4, etc.). The FOT engine reeeeeeeeeaaaaally doesn't like multiple animated lights being drawn & redrawn at the same time. Re-post the map to fix that problem (plus one more I'm about to get to), and I'll give yer map another go ('cause I really liked it untill the aforementioned problem).

Odd my machine is a lot less powerful than yours and while I got some slow down inside the depot it was no more than before I made any alterations to OTB's map. *Sigh* will change the lighting.

Max-can't handle the-Violence wrote:One last problem: Albert is useless (IMO) in combat. That means the squad is basically 5 people, one of which can't use guns (Simon), so really, it's 4. But then there's Ronin who has no ammo, so it's more like 3.5 (since he has that badass hammer and Power Armor). Maybe I just haven't gotten far enough into the map yet, but that's what I think.

Now, it's bedtime for MV.

Yes Albert is useless at the begining and Simon can't use guns at the begining, but they are all level 1 and you've barely scratched the surface of the map. As they level up you can improve them as you wish.

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:

Max-can't handle the-Violence wrote:One last problem: Albert is useless (IMO) in combat. That means the squad is basically 5 people, one of which can't use guns (Simon), so really, it's 4. But then there's Ronin who has no ammo, so it's more like 3.5 (since he has that badass hammer and Power Armor). Maybe I just haven't gotten far enough into the map yet, but that's what I think.

Now, it's bedtime for MV.

Yes Albert is useless at the begining and Simon can't use guns at the begining, but they are all level 1 and you've barely scratched the surface of the map. As they level up you can improve them as you wish.

Ah. Well, in that case, my only problem is the lighting. Bear in mind, Req, that even if a light is in a building, it's still "used" even if the roof isn't popped. One possible fix is to have the lights' OSS off normally, then throw in some triggers to turn 'em on when the PCs get into the building (i.e. player human has more than 0 alive at main_building).

Sorry if it seems like I don't like the map, Req, I really do. I just can't play it

Max-Violence wrote:Ah. Well, in that case, my only problem is the lighting. Bear in mind, Req, that even if a light is in a building, it's still "used" even if the roof isn't popped. One possible fix is to have the lights' OSS off normally, then throw in some triggers to turn 'em on when the PCs get into the building (i.e. player human has more than 0 alive at main_building).

Hmm I've never had any problems in slow down caused by the lighting with any map. I'm playing on a P3 733MHz with a Riva TNT 2 graphics card.

Ah well I've changed the lights from flickering to on permanently lets see if that helps.

Well, I tried the version of the map you sent me and it was better. You did, however, miss a few lights, but I took care of 'em myself. After I did that and played the game at 800x600x16 instead of 1024x768x32, everything was a lot smoother. I think it's mostly because of the huuuuge amount of detail inside the main complex (both tile-wise and entity-wise, both actors and lights -- not a bad thing at all). I'm guessin' WinXP and FOT just don't like each other.

Anyway, I restarted and had me some fun. *SPOILERS!!!*Instead of going right for the Wright Soldiers, I went around the west side of the map. I used Albert, Simon, and Ronin equipped with ammo-saving melee weapons to deal with the RadScoropions. I tried using Lara to pick the locks on the safes, but I couldn't get two of em to open. Eh well, maybe I'll find some Lockpicks mk2

So I went to take the fight to the Wrights. Long story short: I posted Tracy, Mike, and Lara on the roof of the main building, along with Albert and Simon to provide some support (i.e. deal with the dogs). I used Ronin to bash the lone Wright Soldier that's "hiding" in the room below the electrical area as soon as it hit the fan, then I had him observe any leftover soldiers in front of the main building (from a distance, obviously).

Collected all ammo from dead guys + the footlockers in the lil' storage shed outside and went in. Used Ronin to riddle the three guys who rushed into the "lobby" of sorts and had Simon chuck a grenade over the wall to fry the sneaking guy with the hunting rifle. Collected all ammo n' stuff, and tried to do something with the science terminals. Ended up levelling everybody to level 2 with repeated gains of 15 XP from said terminals. Then I had Tracy use her Science skill on a different switch and the game crashed to my desktop. Probably just a random crap-out on FOT's part -- I wouldn't worry 'bout it.

I've a Q: In the storage shed outside the main building, I found 50 5mm bullets. What weapons use 5mm? I've yet to get any. I've also yet to get any extra 5.56 ammo for Ronin's purdy minigun. Intentional?

*END SPOILERS*.

Req -- you might want to know that the .223 ammo has no sprite with it, and the pistol that uses said ammo has no name or desc.

Great fun so far - I like the new sounds n' wait screens n' whatnot. Keep it up!

Max-Violence wrote:Well, I tried the version of the map you sent me and it was better. You did, however, miss a few lights, but I took care of 'em myself.

No I didn't, I kept one or two flickering lights to retain some of the originally intended atmosphere.

Max-Violence wrote: After I did that and played the game at 800x600x16 instead of 1024x768x32, everything was a lot smoother. I think it's mostly because of the huuuuge amount of detail inside the main complex (both tile-wise and entity-wise, both actors and lights -- not a bad thing at all). I'm guessin' WinXP and FOT just don't like each other.

Hmm I'm working on spliting the lights up so that only the lights for the level you're on will be on at any one time, hopefully that'll help speed things up.

Max-Violence wrote:Collected all ammo n' stuff, and tried to do something with the science terminals. Ended up levelling everybody to level 2 with repeated gains of 15 XP from said terminals. Then I had Tracy use her Science skill on a different switch and the game crashed to my desktop. Probably just a random crap-out on FOT's part -- I wouldn't worry 'bout it.

Use Tracy with her science skill? It doesn't take an Einstien to realise that Albert is the scientist! Not that you need to worry about the science switches just yet.

Max-Violence wrote:I've a Q: In the storage shed outside the main building, I found 50 5mm bullets. What weapons use 5mm? I've yet to get any. I've also yet to get any extra 5.56 ammo for Ronin's purdy minigun. Intentional?

MV if you'd go and play the RPGs you'd know that the minigun uses 5mm ammo, where possible I've used the item descriptions from FO2.

Max-Violence wrote:Req -- you might want to know that the .223 ammo has no sprite with it, and the pistol that uses said ammo has no name or desc.

Okay I've fixed the sprite, trouble with using BOSEE to make new ammo types you have to type the sprite path in and I goofed. Fixed the description for the pistol, damn case sensitive FOT.

Edit Okay, I've sent a new version to DAC, I've made the lights inside the Depot only come on if you have team members on a level, and I've hopefully fixed up all the sprites. I've also deleted the junk that got zipped by mistake, so now the file comes under 3 meg.

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:

Max-Violence wrote:I've a Q: In the storage shed outside the main building, I found 50 5mm bullets. What weapons use 5mm? I've yet to get any. I've also yet to get any extra 5.56 ammo for Ronin's purdy minigun. Intentional?

MV if you'd go and play the RPGs you'd know that the minigun uses 5mm ammo, where possible I've used the item descriptions from FO2.

Req if you would double-check everything before you post it, you'd know that the minigun Ronin starts with says it uses 5.56mm. I've also noticed that the hunting rifle says it uses 7.62 but actually uses .223. IIRC there's one more ammo mix-up somewhere...

Max-Violence wrote:Req if you would double-check everything before you post it, you'd know that the minigun Ronin starts with says it uses 5.56mm. I've also noticed that the hunting rifle says it uses 7.62 but actually uses .223. IIRC there's one more ammo mix-up somewhere...

The description says it uses 5mm ammo, the ammotype says 5.56mm, which is because I used the 5.56 ammotype.

Yea I just noticed that about 30 seconds after I posted... I also just noticed a bunch of weapons don't say what ammo they use at all, either in the desc or in the info window (i.e. where the ST requirement and wieght are listed, as well as ammo type). They say something like:
ST: 5
Ammo: .
It weighs 10 pounds.

Anyway, I'm now at the last level of the complex. Only problem right now is I have too much stuff on me. I'll probably dump a bunch of guns I don't use (i.e. the extra laser rifles, combat shotguns, combat armor, oodles of rockets yet I have no rocket launcher, 60 units of flamer fuel when I'm sans flamer, etc.).

Pretty good fun so far, albeit a wee bit easy. I've yet to encounter more than 3 Wright soldiers at a time (not counting the main entrance at ground level, of course), so Tracy and Lara have been tag-teaming all the bad guys (Lara with her laser pistol and Tracy with one of the pistols that has no sprite and no name/desc -- uses .44 ammo).

*SPOILER!!!*What's the deal with all them "Robot Docking Station" thingies? Am I in for a surprise? I tried using Albert to kill 'em (via his Science skill), but they keep making a reeeeeeeeeally irritating noise for a while then they're all fixed up. Any non-spoiler clues? *END SPOILER

Sweet map so far, Req. GJ!

Max-Violence wrote:Yea I just noticed that about 30 seconds after I posted... I also just noticed a bunch of weapons don't say what ammo they use at all, either in the desc or in the info window (i.e. where the ST requirement and wieght are listed, as well as ammo type). They say something like:
ST: 5
Ammo: .
It weighs 10 pounds.

Yeah those are the weapons that use the new ammo types, I'll try and see if I can edit the ammo txt file to show them, but not sure if it'll work as ammo types are hardcoded unless you use BOSEE.

Max-Violence wrote:Anyway, I'm now at the last level of the complex. Only problem right now is I have too much stuff on me. I'll probably dump a bunch of guns I don't use (i.e. the extra laser rifles, combat shotguns, combat armor, oodles of rockets yet I have no rocket launcher, 60 units of flamer fuel when I'm sans flamer, etc.).

Pretty good fun so far, albeit a wee bit easy. I've yet to encounter more than 3 Wright soldiers at a time (not counting the main entrance at ground level, of course), so Tracy and Lara have been tag-teaming all the bad guys (Lara with her laser pistol and Tracy with one of the pistols that has no sprite and no name/desc -- uses .44 ammo).

Grrr, I started to mod the Rpg weapons with a different sprite path for another project, then started again for Deathground. I bet when I did the update it overwrote all the new entities I had created, with the ones that point to different sprites. Okay I'll do a small patch for this.

Max-Violence wrote:*SPOILER!!!*What's the deal with all them "Robot Docking Station" thingies? Am I in for a surprise? I tried using Albert to kill 'em (via his Science skill), but they keep making a reeeeeeeeeally irritating noise for a while then they're all fixed up. Any non-spoiler clues? *END SPOILER

Sweet map so far, Req. GJ!

You're about a quarter of a way into the mission, let's just say the Title is very appropriate.

When I played the map yesterday the game crashed to desktop for me as well, when trying to use science skill on one of the terminals. At that time I had cleaned the top area and then saved before using the terminal. After the crash I didnt reload since cause I wanted to get back to my own project, so I dont know if its a consistent bug. The lights really needed to be fixed, my machine was slowing down like hell as well. Nice map, the combat with the wrights are nice. Im gona DL the new map with the new lightning and play it sometime soon. The trouble with lighting in FOT is damn anoying, every time I place a camp fire I really want to use the flicker fire light, but just one is enough to slow things down considerably. Very sad. I really liked the sounds change, better then original FOT for the most part.

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:You're about a quarter of a way into the mission

A quarter? Holy good Gawd!

Req wrote:let's just say the Title is very appropriate.

Um... uh-oh...

46 and/or 2 wrote:so I dont know if its a consistent bug

It only happened to me once, and I used the same character in the same stance the second time (when it didn't crash) as the first time (when it did). Try, try again!

46 & 2 wrote:The lights really needed to be fixed, my machine was slowing down like hell as well

Good, I'm glad it's not just me (you on WinXP by chance, 46 & 2?)

Guy's what are you on about new sounds for? The only new sounds are for the Bozar and you won't of come across one of them yet. The only other sounds used are from the FOT catalogue.

Edit I did download the FO2 themes from DAC and was using them as custom music, I didn't include them but the config file is probably set to custom music, so you're probably playing whatever you have in the custom music folder.

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:Guy's what are you on about new sounds for? The only new sounds are for the Bozar and you won't of come across one of them yet. The only other sounds used are from the FOT catalogue.

Edit I did download the FO2 themes from DAC and was using them as custom music, I didn't include them but the config file is probably set to custom music, so you're probably playing whatever you have in the custom music folder.

This is strange.. more soudns are working with your -path..? Like missed bullets. When I use my normal FOT path and such they dont make any sound besides firing, no impact or anything. Wierd.

Forty-six & Two wrote:This is strange.. more soudns are working with your -path..? Like missed bullets. When I use my normal FOT path and such they dont make any sound besides firing, no impact or anything. Wierd.

Hmm well I've not got a sound card so I have my sound options set to 'no 3d sound' that'll be in the config file under my path. Perhaps that's what's making the difference.

Forty-six & Two wrote:This is strange.. more soudns are working with your -path..? Like missed bullets. When I use my normal FOT path and such they dont make any sound besides firing, no impact or anything. Wierd.

Ditto. Spill the beans, Req! SPIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL THEEEEEEEEMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!

Damn I dont get this... theres sounds I didnt even knew exsisted.. well, I did, but I forgot about them. Heh. Whats up with this? Theres no sound editing stuff in Reqs path...?

Forty-six & Two wrote:Damn I dont get this... theres sounds I didnt even knew exsisted.. well, I did, but I forgot about them. Heh. Whats up with this? Theres no sound editing stuff in Reqs path...?

Check to see what's different between the bos.cfg under my path and what you normally have set up. That's all I can suggest.

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:

Forty-six & Two wrote:Damn I dont get this... theres sounds I didnt even knew exsisted.. well, I did, but I forgot about them. Heh. Whats up with this? Theres no sound editing stuff in Reqs path...?

Check to see what's different between the bos.cfg under my path and what you normally have set up. That's all I can suggest.

Random idea: Maybe, since we've got Awaken installed (right, 46 & 2?), that the sounds from that "bled" through to everything else. Note that I haven't testing this little theory out at all (i.e. played core campaign and note the sounds, play a different map and note the sounds, etc.) -- just an idea before I go to bed.

Max-Violence wrote:Random idea: Maybe, since we've got Awaken installed (right, 46 & 2?), that the sounds from that "bled" through to everything else. Note that I haven't testing this little theory out at all (i.e. played core campaign and note the sounds, play a different map and note the sounds, etc.) -- just an idea before I go to bed.

Well since I can't download Awaken over my dial up connection I'll have to leave you to test that, but I can't see how unless Awaken overwrites the sounds in the Core folder. Hmm have you been modding your own weapons by any chance and forgotten to select impacts sounds for the enities?