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An interesting Observation....
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 4:42 pm
by Carib
My comrade in arms, Ashmodai (AKA Puriel) said this
The only excuse Interplay ever had for backing off from 2D was "We can't exceed the current sprite limit because there's not any more space on a CD" (counter-fact: Baldur's Gate had at least 4 CDs and it was all 2D and even produced by the same company!) and "We can't use DVDs because DVD drives are not common enough" (counter-fact: nowadays most people have a DVD drive - sooner or later people will be forced to buy one anyways). However they are totally ignoring that their arguments are absolutely pointless and defeated already. The truth is: marketing says that 3D sells better and they need money fast.
Now, as for you, Locke.
"it's just a game" is the most ridiculous excuse I ever heard. It's as pointless as "so what?". If you don't give a fuck, then say so.
This is not just a game, it's a hobby and thus it's part of my (and other people's) life. We spend a good deal of our time on not only the game but the entire universe surrounding it. See... you can't understand why people think your faith in religion was pointless, it's the same the other way around.
It's like saying "so if the world sucks so much, then why don't you just go and commit suicide?" - it's not about being able to make a difference (because that is bullshit), it's about being able to express your feelings. And for people who have not only spent a great deal of their time with everything Fallout, but also adored it like nothing else, these feelings are very fucking intense.
Only because we aren't in a fan club or blackmailing Interplay's marketing section, does it mean we don't care - or that we shouldn't care - or that it would be pointless to care?
You know what, I don't care about THAT! Because I fucking care about what they are doing to Fallout.
Yes, it's their game, yes they are the ones with the license, but does that mean they should be allowed to just destroy everything based on it? See, this is why I hated the Fallout Bible.
It may be their game, but it's not their universe. Not anymore. Like Hidden Rest isn't your universe, nor was Fallout Idaho Bloodmaw's or Fredrick's universe, nor is the Network mine, Cameron's or Eve's. It's mental property to those who made it what it is: the developers AND the players.
And this is what's with Fallout - if they hadn't wanted it to come that far, they should have stopped it, but they didn't. They let "communities" form and grow and let them mod the game and write stories set in its universe.
You defined Hidden Rest as copyrighted to you, so it's all yours (apart from the 70% of the posts or how many it was which were not written by you, obviously). However that's not the case with Fallout and Interplay.
And do you know what they do with everything built up so far when they release a new game? They destroy it. They destroy not only what has been created, but they also destroy what could have been added by adding more rules to the setting: Vipers, Jackals, EPA, that kind of stuff which was planned but never released and thus never existed for the fans.
phew. Long post. Please don't reply to all of that. I don't feel like conversation today. Just had to let loose some hot air.
I mean he has a very valid point and also, note, how come the Falllout 2 series couldn't be done on multiple disks. I mean, hello, Baldur's Gate has four CDs...
And why not DVD?
Re: An interesting Observation....
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 6:23 pm
by VasikkA
Rama Stryfe wrote:I mean he has a very valid point
What point? Do you mean the CD thingy or that guys opinion on Interplay and the Fallout license?
and also, note, how come the Falllout 2 series couldn't be done on multiple disks. I mean, hello, Baldur's Gate has four CDs...
And why not DVD?
Excuse me if I'm missing out something, but I'd rather have my games on one CD instead of several disks. And as far as I know, DVD wasn't available during the release of Fallout 2.
Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2003 7:39 pm
by swordinstone
its prob too expensive for interplay to experiment with at this point... but I do wish that multiple CD games would also have a 1 DVD version released also, so I dont have to swap constantly... I honestly dont know if it would be good for sales or anything, but it might be worth a shot.
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:00 am
by SuperH
The thing is, there's no reason not to switch to 3D now. Sure you could spend all the time making a million and two sprites and putting them all on multiple discs or on a DVD, but why would you, when you have to make 3D models and animate them just to make the sprites?
Giving them to the players in this way makes them much smaller and also much more able to accept changes, whether being different "hurt skins" or "snap on model pieces" like guns or helmets or something. The only reason this wasn't done before was because computers couldn't handle it at all, but nowadays the average computer will have no problem with it.
It's not just because it's a marketing decision, it's because sprites are exceedingly limiting, both in space taken up and in run time options. In order to make a character look like he's holding a shotgun, with sprites you have to render every single frame of animation for every character which can hold the shotgun and save them all. With 3D you can make one shotgun model, and put it in the hands of anyone who you want to be able to hold it, and render in runtime, saving loads and loads of space.
I forgot what my point was... um. Yeah, there's no reason not to go to 3D now that computers can handle it. If they keep the style of the old fallouts (and don't make it grotesquely misproportionate like WC3 or something... that would fucking suck) they can only improve it.
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:06 am
by Carib
All good Points, I suppose.
These things cost money. But when I stressed that DVD format could be used, i didn't mean back then when DVD was rare. DVDs are very common place now... and no one here can't tell me otherwise. I am just asking how come if space was an issue they couldn't make Fallout 2 a wto or three CD set or even Four. I mean they could have put everything they could have imagined there...
As for 3-D. I am open to it. I mean, I'd love to look at my player as he grows and develops and the armor and clothing that could be attached.
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:38 am
by Spazmo
Well, we can be damn sure that FO3 will be in full 3D. Van Buren, AKA Fallout 3, is using the Jefferson engine, which is a 3D engine.
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:40 am
by SuperH
Yeah, i see what you mean. I'm liking the 3D thought because if it's done with any degree of thought it will rock. I hope. Heh... 10 bucks says I just jinxed it... anyway...
I'm also not opposed to multiple cds or dvds, if the amount of content requires. Probably I'm more leaning towards dvds, because I'd imagine that multiple cds would cause the cost of production to skyrocket. Barring the posibility of bulk rates, 3 or 4 cds cost 3 or 4 times the amount to produce as does one cd, not to mention the cost of getting the fancy schmancy case to hold all the cds. I donno how dvds stack up price wise compared to cds, but i'd imagine a single dvd would cost less than 4 cds, and i'm almost positive it would hold more. dvd would be a good way to go, i think. even though the comp i would be playing it on doesn't have a dvd drive as far as i know... it would probably necessitate the purchase of one
heh
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 2:53 am
by Carib
Last I recall Baldur's gate didn't suffer that? And with so mant rabids fans what do they have to lose. They already bashed us hard enough with FBOS...
I mean, they have done some serious stuff that have hurt us greatly.
DOn't get me wrong... If they spent time making FO3 and straightening out the Fallout Bible as well as pay attention to the key ideas and gaps of the multplie universe the communities have spawned, they'd might have actually turned out a real master piece.
But up to now you can't find one add-on or expansion pack, as I recall, Baldur's gate has them a plenty and so does Icewind dale.
We have had to rely on our good Eastern Bloc (Team X) comrades and other hackers to satiate our rabid hungers...
So it shows you these guys have been dragging their feet. They never even took a chance.
But if it is 3-d I hope it rocks like Morrowind.... with less bugs.
Not only that, I am sure more than 80% comps now all have DVD in one form or the other... and a DVD does cost less and store more then four CD's combined.
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:48 am
by axelgreese
Rama Stryfe wrote:Not only that, I am sure more than 80% comps now all have DVD in one form or the other... and a DVD does cost less and store more then four CD's combined.
Just because you'd like to think things are so, doesn't make them so. I'm not sure of the statistics but I think those numbers are rather generous.