Duck and Cover

I am happy to see a much, much better implementation of the hand to hand combat system. It looks like being a hand to hand fighter will actually be a worth while path.... however I really hope that they do not take anything away from the gun play part of the game becasue of this. FO without great gun play is like Star Wars without the force

I can agree with making ammo and really good guns harder to come by because the survival feel is better when you look in your inventory and think "damn, I have to find (steal) some supplies" but don't limit it too much, it will take some balancing to get it right.

what are you talking about?

Your posts lack some things...oh what is it, uh, purpose, and substance.

He is talking about the unarmed combo system that was mentioned.

It sounds interesting but it isn't often that multiple enemies are all in melee range, and I can't see it working very well in real-time.

Disarm attacks will be useful and maybe running start attacks that attack so many spaces away from you and use a running start.

Mentioned where for chrissakes! Jesus it's like some kinda conspiracy to make us all get confused eh Cipher and Human shield? Yea well perhaps it won't fucking work on me goddamit! Perhaps I'm to smart for your little mind-games, perhaps you can confuse everyone else but not me, good ol' john-boy. Good ol' john with his walkie-talkies and knives eh? They called me crazy, but we all know that they were communists trying to topple the tower that is the american machine! Your plan won't work sadaam, I've got the power of jesus in me!

Link

J.E. Sawyer says the following:

"If the advantage of firearms is range and damage at the cost of ammo conservation, and the advantage of melee is in reliability and good potential damage from powered weapons at the cost of (usually) range and less overall damage than firearms, then (IMO), the advantage of unarmed should be in flexibility at the cost of range and damage.

The highly skilled unarmed character should always have at least two moves to perform for each AP level between 2 and 10. Because interface limitations can be overcome in a future Fallout title, the unarmed character should have access to half of these attacks with one click-hold-release. Each move should have its own benefits and drawbacks so that a healthy amount of the moves stay useful throughout the game.

The moves could be split into these groups: hand attacks, hand combos, foot attacks, foot combos and hand-foot combos. For example, the character could have Jab, Cross, Uppercut, Elbow Smash, Backhand, Sucker Punch, Spearhand, and Ridgehand as standard hand attacks, each with their own AP cost, bonus or penalty to hit, DT modifier, and damage. However, the character could also gain "two-in-one" combos.

For instance, Jab-Elbow. The combo would do both moves, each at a different hex. The Jab would go into the targeted hex, and the Elbow Smash would go into the hex back and to the right. The combo would cost less AP than both moves individually, but it would be at a lower chance to hit with each attack, and would incur a fatigue cost. Another combo might be Cross-Backhand-Ridgehand, hitting the first hex targeted, the hex to the right, and the hex two more to the right.

Kicks could have the same general layout (with different moves, of course). The kicks don't even have to be crazy wire-fu'ed out. They can just be regular ol' kicks. Snap Kick, Axe Kick, Roundhouse, Back Kick, Side Kick, Hook Kick, etc. You could have the same sorts of combos. Roundhouse-Hook, Side-Back, Snap-Side-Axe.

The most complex combos would only be available when the character was fighting with no equipment in either hand, allowing hand-foot combos that could hit four, five, or even six hexes. Axe-Backhand-Round-Spear, Cross-Round-Back-Jab-Uppercut, Uppercut-Elbow-Side-Axe-Ridge-Spear. The high-skill complex combo unarmed character is like a mobile low-powered grenade, able to hit the hexes he or she wants when he or she wants from round to round. He or she never runs out of ammo, but has to accept that at high efficiency, he or she is accumulating fatigue and doing less damage than a comparable melee or firearms character. But with more than thirty moves to perform at high levels, never needing to equip or reload weapons, the unarmed character has ultimate flexibility for dealing with any close-range encounter with small to very large numbers of opponents.

In addition, it would be nice if the unarmed characters had the opportunity to learn fighting stances that filled the same role as ammo types for firearms characters (hollow point vs. armor piercing, etc.). Say you encounter and become pals with a group of NCR Rangers. One of the benefits of befriending them is that their combat trainer will teach you the NCR Ranger Stance. This stance emphasizes attacking vulnerable locations (automatically lowers defensive DT on hit) at a cost of speed (+1 AP for all moves). The character isn't always animating in that stance -- it's something that's entered (turned on) and either maintained or turned off by going into a normal stance or another stance (Tribal Stance, Puglist Stance, etc.).

EDIT: Oh, and one special move for hands (Disarm) and one special move for feet (Sweep). Disarm has a chance of knocking the weapon out of the target's hands, Sweep has a chance of just knocking them down."

wow, very innotive J-E! Why not just add fireball fires and get it over with for chrissakes!

I always wanted to be able to shoot hadokens when I got my unarmed skill up high enough.
Never happened.

Why would a combo have set targets? That seems to retard the usefulness of the change.

Yea, I can see really detailed hand to hand only being able to be used in turn based combat.

I think it should let you select multiple targets for the multi attack combo's. I could see it being useful in situations were you are talking to someone or "negotiating a deal" and you may be surounded and then all of a sudden the $hit hits the fan and you attack in front behind and to the side in one move. Or the charging attacks could be nice, if it lets you take cover and run out and attack quickly.

I'm sure they would creat better situations to use hand to hand combat if they take the time to impliment a good combat system.

Like I said as long as it does not take away from the gun play it's cool. I still can't see hand to hand being a one and only fighting choice. You would have to have some other combat skill like small arms or throwing etc. etc.

It also talks like the hand to hand and melee weapons will be seperate skills. I think they should go hand in hand more so than being seperate.

I really think this JE pissface designed the combo system with the realtime portion in mind. I can just see it now. It's a fucking nightmare. Combat in fallout 3 that looks like something out of a mmorpg or NWN... *guy idles in action pose, idle idle idle... kick punch kick, idle idle idle, dodge animation, idle idle idle...* Fucking gay! People who enjoy combat like that must have an extra chromosome.


As far as what I've read. This guy is doing nothing more than taking a successful series and taking a big beer-shit on the people who have made it what it was and those who enjoyed it enough to make it a success. The guy's obviously a puppet.

Burnov wrote:I really think this JE pissface designed the combo system with the realtime portion in mind.

You're really wrong. The trick will be getting it to work in realtime by coming up with a good interface for choosing the attack.

Starwars Galaxies has something exactly how I described. It wouldn't be hard at all. It'd be like every other garbage pseudo real-time system wherein two guys idle in action poses and they queue certain abilities when their little timer runs out and they no longer idle like some tool in their action position. They assume the benefits/drawbacks of said ability. Whatever that is. Defensive posture or some stupid little combo.

I like anything pertaining to turn-based combat. But I really miss the fricking boat on how watching two guys idle in an action pose and hit one another occasionally is fun.

combos are silly and stupid, u cant use them all on a single target. multiple unarmed hits might sound fun but it does not appeal to me somehow.

Some people would like to see a more detailed combat system. I do think it would suck if it ends up being some flity flashy combat, it should be kept mostly simple and brutal.

Like I said before as long as the guns fights are kept cool and/or improved upon it will help a lot.

Fallout 1 and 2 are the best RolePlaying Games of all time. When I first got the
ten-dollar two-game set I was so happy. I got home, turned on the computer, poped that bad-boy into the drive and I was set. From this day I still have the game--wouldn't sell it. Anyways, the combat system shouldn't be changed, but Interplay should do something about the way your character walks around. Transportation during battle would be great just like Fallout Tactics. I never played Fallout Tactics, but I read about it. I really want that game.

The main problem I see is this.......if they make the ammo rare, and increse the HTH usefull ness, then they will need to have way more of the enimies hth, cause if they are not.....then they can destroy your HTH guy, and if you do live, you have there gun, and then the guns are not rare.

So either, it need to be lots of HTH and mele, with MOST of the people you fight doing the same........or its like it is, many of the people you fight have guns.

I duno, you just can't have more HTH if the bad guys are going to have guns....and I myself don't like the idea of most of the bad guys being hth or mele

I just speed-read the thread...

But it sounds like Fallout Karate Kid...

Yossarian wrote:I just speed-read the thread...

But it sounds like Fallout Karate Kid...

Then I would suggest working on your speed-reading comprehension skills.

My question is, how exactly would you implement such a combo system with the real-time combat? Even if you have a decent interface, you're still getting shot at while making your attacks.