So tell me, is college pointless?

[Neon Dingo]

I'm at that "crossroads of life," being 17 and all. Now's the time I have to figure out what the hell to do with my life after I'm done serving my time in <strike>prison</strike> high school.

Everyone is pushing me into different different directions, suggesting big name colleges, community colleges, and even the military. I know college has its uses, but I've been thinking about it all night and I've become more and more skeptical as to if it will really help me at all in life.

I know a lot of you have finished college or are currently in college and could probably give me some good suggestions.

I'm really interested in pursuing a career in game design and/or art-related stuff. I just don't know what the hell to do. I can draw well, I have pretty good ideas, but I just don't know where to get started. Everyone says "college is the answer."

I'm a very intelligent person, I practically take all advanced classes (which oddly enough does not entail intelligence, but I digress), so the difficulty level is not really of any concern to me.

I took the practice SAT a while back and got a 1100. That's not bad, but it's not good, either. I know I can get something like a 1400 if I study really hard. Getting a good score on the SAT is basically just beating the test, it's bullshit, really. All memorization of big words and basic algebra.


My concerns:

- College is expensive, I am poor, probably in the lower-middle class, if not upper lower-class in the economic brackets of America. I am definitely going to have to get a loan, there's no way around it.

- I fear that if I don't go to a good university I'll be making websites and doing tech support for the rest of my life.

- I have probably $160 to my name right now so I have no idea how I'd be able to go anywhere but the nearby university and live with my parents.

- I don't want to be paying for this shit when I'm 40 doing a dead-end tech support job that doesn't require any skills I learned in college.

Ugh, it just seems so pointless to me. It seems to me like I can go to a library and read all day and probably learn more on my own than by being lectured by some old bastard who thinks he knows everything.

Courses such as English in college are pretty much impractical and pointless. Interpretation of poetry does not help me in life. I took a test to get out of my freshman English class in college, which is pretty nice.

To be honest, the only real reason I've entertained the idea of going to college is because I know it'll be a fantastic social experience. I'm pretty much anti-social at the moment because people around here suck, so I'll probably go crazy once I have the opportunity to meet non-sucky people that don't wear cowboy boots and drive Chevy pick-ups with a Confederate flag draped across the back window.

[satanisgreat]

Yes.

I spent one semester in college to try to get into the movie or writing business. Picture high school, only you have to pay for it. With the economy as shitty as it is right now and will be in the foreseeable future, a college education is pointless.

[OnTheBounce]

I think that 90+% of people in college today don't belong there. What they really need is a good technical/vocational school so they don't have to worry about all of those things they will have to take courses on in college and can concentrate on learning their profession.

If you're not looking into getting exposed to things like the Humanities and other things not directly related to your job, forget college.

If you're looking for a social experience, college is a waste of time since you generally have the choice between having a decent social life, or doing well in school.

I wouldn't worry about the cost. You're better off getting in hock a bit and being able to get a decent job (i.e. one you can look forward to every day, or at least most of the time) than getting stuck in low-paying and -- worse, by far -- unrewarding jobs.

Since you're looking at game design I'll give you a bit of advice. There are going to be a lot of people telling you that you won't be able to make it and that you're wasting your money. Make it your business to prove them wrong. Take me, for example, I'm majoring in History, with a double minor in Philosophy and German Language Studies. People generally think I'm going to be one scholarly-ass burger flipper. It's my business to show them up. That's why I made sure to get into the Honors College, and also why I strive to be the very best at what I do. I eat grad students for lunch, then go back for seconds.

If you're going to go military, make sure you enlist in a combat arms Military Occupational Specialty (MOS), but not artillery since as a white boy you will stand out like a sore thumb waiting to be hammered. The benefits to this are that you will receive both the Army College Fund as well as the GI Bill. This means that you can go to school and not have to work. (Assuming that you don't eat steak, lobster and caviar every night.) Your military experience will most likely not translate into marketable job skills, but you will get to do things other people only dream about while they jerk off to Counter Strike, and that experience will last you a lifetime.

Of course, if you're not willing to be a thug for multi-national corporations (i.e. get your ass shot off in places you never would have wanted to visit in the first place) you might give the military a pass. There's nothing more pathetic than someone who thinks the balloon has gone up and is busy gurgling on about how they only joined for the college money while tears streak down his/her face.

Whatever you do, just make sure you don't find yourself lying on your deathbed, shitting yourself while screaming about how your life was a waste...

OTB

[airsoft guy]

I too am 17 and have no idea what I want to do with my life, well I do know but it's probably not viable, it's the Dave Attell fantasy job, be the manager of a chocolate factory with big breasted strippers. Okay I'd really like to have ab airsoft/paintball feild, with all the refs being big breasted strippers.

I say, you should try the military, don't take everything a recruiter says to heart, they will lie to get you to sign up. Example, my dumbass freind Steve's brother went and joined the Army, what won him over was when he asked if he could smoke during basic, the recruiters answer? Of course, in fact we hand them out! Bullshit, smoking is strictly verbotten during basic training. Then he found a good paying job and somehow got out of the military thing, which is good because I don't like the idea of Andrew having access to Kevlar and automatic rifles gives me the willies.

Plus if you join the military you can, *ahem*, "borrow" some hand grenades and go fishing and those skills could be useful for when the atomic war comes, and like OTB said you can lord it over all those Counter Strike bitches.

[satanisgreat]

I'd say no military, either.

Alot of my friends were all up for the military when they turned 18, but when it came down to it, they said no thank you. The only one who actually went through with it was the one I least suspected, my girl Sally. She's getting kicked out for failing a drug test, though.

Unless you're into conformity and like being told what to do, forget about it. Just find a good, steady job and stick with it. Try the post office or something. It might take you awhile, but eventually you'll be making just as much if not more than the college boys. Plus if you get a manual labor job you'll stay in shape.

[OnTheBounce]

I say, you should try the military, don't take everything a recruiter says to heart, they will lie to get you to sign up.

Oh, you bet they lie!

Here's a less obvious lie. Let's say you have your heart set on becoming a Light Infantryman. The MOS is 11B. However, when you sign up they will often sign you up as a "11X", then your ass gets to Ft. Benning, and suddenly you're told that something along the lines of, "Oh, those recruiters don't know how the Army really works. You're going to be a 11C (Indirect Fire Infantryman, AKA Mortar Maggot, "bloob tuber", etc.), instead of an 11B like you wanted to be." If happened to me. I was signed up as a 19X, but I got lucky and was sent to 19K (Abrams Crewman) training. Things could have been bad since I could have ended up as a 19E (M60 "Super Patton" crewman), or -- much worse by far -- as a 19D ("Cavalry Scout", AKA "crunchy", "speed bump", etc.).

ND, if you go this route, I'm sure there are a couple of people that can give you some sound advice before you give 'em your John Hancock.

Oh, one other advantage I failed to mention about military service: it will give you time to think and you will learn things about yourself so you will have a better idea of what exactly it is you want before you shackle yourself to some degree program. You'll get paid for all of this, too.

OTB

[satanisgreat]

Yeah, my friend Sally was all set on having me at least join the reserves so I could be with her on weekends or whatever. But I have a big Japanese symbol tattooed on the back of my neck so they called it a "permenant disqualification".

Now that she's getting kicked out, she says it sucks and is not worth it.

[Max-Violence]

I eat grad students for lunch, then go back for seconds.

That's going to be in my sig in a few moments...

*cough* Anyway, I'm 21 and still in community college. It's going to take me 3.5 years to get a 2 year degree (having to work to pay for school blows hardcore, avoid it if you can), but you bet your ass the degree WILL BE MINE. After that, it's "BYE-BYE, WAL-GODDAMN-MART!!!" and, hopefully, "Hellllllloooooooo Information Technology job!."

College is one of those things that sucks. Companies love seeing a degree or two on an applicant's resume. That's no secret. Having a degree, I hear, will boost your salary by a good bit, especially in computer/game/technology industries.

What IS a secret (er, was to me at one point), is that just because you have a degree, doesn't mean yer makin' $150,000 per year right out of school. $60,000 out of school is damn good. Of course, there are exceptions (one of my cousins made (read: no longer makes) six figs right out of college, although the dumb bastard quit because he didn't like being under anyone that wasn't "cool"), but that's rare (and he's quite proficient in the C programming language, and lemme tell ya, C is freakin' hard. Not as hard as, oh, assembly, but fuckloads harder than Visual Basic).

The bottom line: I'm in almost the same spot as you, Neon Dingo, only I've already half-made my choice, so don't freakin' ask me!

[EvoG]

I was months from going to college when I was 17, when I was offered an opportunity to do some 3D work for SEGA. Sure I met the right person at the right time, but now I can impart this to you that which you may never discover yourself.

Don't say you want to design games...that will get you absolutely nowhere. Saying I have ideas for cool games is pointless, since everyone has ideas. To get into developing games, all you really need is a honest passion for games ( not just Fallout, and I'm being serious ), and you need to bring a real skill to the table. If you're an artist, even one that isn't good, but like art, pursue art. Take your $160 and buy books on 3DS Max ( and I mean max, not Maya, at least not yet {Max is industry dominant}), buy a book on creating art for games, some are modeling/texturing specifc, some are broad yet detailed enough to get your ass in the know about everything dealing with realtime 3D art. Last get a book on game design. Now maybe I just confused you, but no, to SAY you want to be a game designer is meaningless, but to UNDERSTAND game design and theory isn't. You don't tell people you design games, you understand how they're made, participate in their creation, then decide later on once you're in the industry, that you want to start making creative decisions pertaining to game design. Then someone might pass the reigns to you and let you do a game.

Art is the quickest path into the industry. If you're an okay artist but know the software, you have a chance. If you're pretty good, you WILL find work. If you are excellent you will live very well.

Programming is the other half of your brain. You either understand computers and code and more than likely did it as you grew up ( well you're 17, so I guess you still are ), or you simply enjoy the creation and discovery of making computers do shit from seemingly nothing. Don't bother unless you can honestly say you enjoy it, because its daunting and frustrating and involves a fucking lot of reading.

Music and sound...um...unless you're a musician and know people, its not a great path into games.

As for college...I'm self taught, so I may be biased, but the best thing I can say is that you will get back as much as you put in. If you're ambitious and know HOW to learn, and how to make use of what you learn, you will be more successful, and the networking can be invaluable. Ironically enough, if you are that same ambitious person, you can get your education at Barnes and Noble ( or Borders, whichever you prefer ) since you know how to learn. The only other thing about college is that it shows you committed to something for the long haul. Its not the education, its the fact that you stuck with it. Don't be discouraged though when job descriptions say that a college education is required...thats crap...if you're talented they don't give a fuck if you went to school or not...they just do that to weed out the less serious people... and if you're talented, you're serious and you wouldn't let that 'college education' bit stop you from applying.

Whatever you do, don't just get a job and be done. Learn something bro. You love games, study the hell out of their creation ( don't go to a lame game college ). If you have NO options, go into the military, get some discipline and get in shape and learn some tech skills ( you said you were bright ). Just don't get a fucking warehouse job and think the world just ended.

Knowing what I know now and if I could be 17 again, the fucking world would seem like the most exciting place full of possibilities. It still is for me though I'm 28, but either way, you're just begining and really, you work hard you can really do whatever you want.

Cheers

[Viktor]

Knowing what I know now and if I could be 17 again, the fucking world would seem like the most exciting place full of possibilities. It still is for me though I'm 28, but either way, you're just begining and really, you work hard you can really do whatever you want.

Cheers

I'm 37 and know exactly what you mean, mate!

ND - The only person who can stop you getting what you want is YOU. Get good advice from people who've actually walked the career path you're interested in and make your own mind up which way you want to go.

I've always regretted not serving a term with Her Majesty's Hooligans AKA British Petrolium Investor Security (The British Army) when I was young enough, so I really think you at least look into a spell in the military if you're considering this as a career choice.

[the guardian]

I'd say no military, either.

I don't know about that.


Take me for instance. In my country it's mendatory to join the millitary. Now I admit I didn't want to go, but it does tend to change you in a certain aspect. Regardless of whether you're in combat or not, it takes you out of your comfort house, friends and family, and throws you inside a tent with 50 other strangers who's as fucking confused as you are. It has a certain effect on you, blast me if I can describe it properly, but when you live for a month or two with complete strangers, and get woken up every morning at 4 am to do shit you don't realy want to, you learn how to cope with difficult situations a lot better. It also imporves your people skills: You make friends with people who you can't even connect with on the grounds that you're have to spend a lot fo time with this idiots. Sometimes they become like close family, it's realy kind of strange.

The army also makes you realy learn that in life, no one gives a flying shit about you. What little you may think you know now is but a drop compared to how you'll feel when you don't have your family and friends around you, or your little sanctuary you call a room and a computer.

It's kind of like prison, but it gives you benefits once it's over.



That's my two cents about the army, anyway.

[Aneurysm]

With your age , and your social condition I would go for the army .
Unlike some foreign armies across the world , the American army provides a lot of assistance for it's men like it's been said before . Most important , you will get a lot of experience from it , that will help you a great deal in the future . Maybe after enlisting you will prefer making a career out of it …

[Greg]

Jesus tapdancing Christ -- don't join the fucking army.

[Jimmyjay86]

At this point in history the military is probably a bad decision, wait until Bush is out of office if you are American. Unless you really have a good direction college isn't the best idea after high school. Get a job or go to tech school or both. I went to college in my mid 20's and thoroughly enjoyed it socially and educationally. At that point I knew what I wanted carer-wise so I didn't screw around too much. I still had fun and partied though.

[morris]

If you're interested in Game Design... save your money, and start making games. Your 4 years are much better spent practicing making games, and building your skills than goig to school. Practice taking a game design and making it into a game, or making it at least into a pitch you could give to a publisher.

Personally, i went to college, and it was good for me, but was very expensive, and it's really screwing me financially right now. While I learned a lot, i probably would have learned more if I just taught myself, and worked on the stuff that would be userful to me in what I wanted to do.

If you wanted to do something like be a chemical engineer or something along those lines, school would be worthwhile, but for game design, it's much more about proving yourself to a publisher than any degree or background you may have.

If you don't have the skills to actually buils the games you design, look for game programmers that want to get into the business and form a partnership (if I wasn't busy with my own game, I might volunteer my skills).

[ExtremeDrinker]

If you're interested in Game Design... save your money, and start making games

Damn straight...One of my friends got out of highschool and immediately got a job with Virgin...Another of my friends dropped out of highschool and got a job with a company writing security software....Another of my friends didn't even start highschool...He does $10,000 contracts to write simple programs for software companies....He used to have a million dollar contract with Fujitsu....(He lost that contract to a family member of someone in the company....He was pissed)



I'm in college.....College is highschool where you pay to smoke on campus. There aren't any cliques...Everyone here except me seems to be the average jock/preppie. For my perspective job, I actually have to go to college...But if I was doing anything else, I'd definately not have gone to college.

It's a half truth that you will make more money with a degree...It's a half truth because there are lots of jobs out there that do contract work for people who've been doing it all their lives, and most of them don't have degrees...In Oklahoma (Where I live), only 22% of the adult population has a bachelors degree...The rest are either highschool or vo-tech people....Quite a few of them obviously make more than I ever will.

If I could do it all over again, I would not go to college..I'd go to vo-tech and learn a trade....I actually tried this..I dropped out of college and tried to go to Motorcycle Mechanic's Institute in Phoenix Arizona...That's a dream job for me...Fixing motorcycles, drinking beer, and making choppers.....Unfortunately I didn't qualify for financial aid, so I ended up back in college...

If you're gonna be a doctor, lawyer, teacher, or some type of engineer, go to college....If not, go to vo-tech and learn to do something you enjoy.

[Megatron]

I'm not really bothered about going to college, people keep saying it makes learning fun and stuff but I'm fucking bored stupid and am sort of fucked in the grade aspect (I'm meant to get A for everything and I'm getting E :DDD). I think I'll try a modern apprenti-ship thingy-majig, work in some job for most of the week and go to college 1 day, get paid as well as get a degree at the end or something.

Failing that, I'll join the army or police. I don't really give a shit about money, so long as I get out of this shitty town kekeke

[Slave_Master]

I'm in college right now majoring in sociology with a minor in criminal justice. I'll join the army when I have my bachelor's degree for a few years (thanks for the valuable advice by the way, OTB) and then be a cop. I'm going to learn Arabic so I could go back to college and get my master's in sociology to get a snazzy antiterrorism job with the FBI, or just go be an international terrorist if I get burned out of law enforcement.

[InvisibleMonkey]

I know I am 2 years younger than you, but why don't you take some time off after high school and just think about what you want to do.

[Megatron]

perhaps he has?

besides, everyone get's asked what they want to do for the rest of there lives in the last 2 years of school. I'm also probably not the only one who keeps getting advised to go to college and want 'what's best for me' even though I've asked them a few times if they even fucking listen to me. I don't really give a shit anymore, I've decided I'd like to experience as much stuff as I can or something. How Kubrick.