Boom Bugs? Boom Bugs?! Were they drunk?

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 10:18 am

So I'm sitting here last night thinking of all the things in the world that are wrong, one of those things happens to be Fallout Tactics. Now I love this game. Without the Fallout attached to it I should thing it would be a pretty decent post-apocalyptic squad game, but of course there's the Devil and someone must have sold their soul to him. Don't look at me. I'm not really one to point out the plot holes or logical inconsistencies and all that bullshit, I know it's bullshit, you know it's bullshit. We know we was bullshitted, shazam. I'm really more the type that looks at the stuff Tom Clancy gets a boner over, guns, tanks, planes, Jack Ryan, you know, guy shit.

Here's a major concern of mine, the abundance of automatic rifles and sub-machine guns. The timeline split somewhere after World War 2, in Tactics I think it split later because of the inconsistencies in it from the other two games. In 1934 automatic firearms, silencers and short barreled shotguns and rifles became illegal, yet you find about 800 fully automatic AK-47's and Uzi's. Why so many AK's anyway? If fully-automatic rifles were legalized in the Tactics world before the war, wouldn't you see more than just AK-47's? Why not more M-16's? Why would people buy filthy communist products when they are practically at war with them already? Somebody forgot to do their homework and I kicked them in the head because that's how things roll in my classroom.

The game should have been filled more with firearms us normal slobs can buy, handguns, shotguns, hunting rifles and semi-automatic versions of military rifles with very few automatic rifles, even though you are in the Brotherhood of Steel. Later in the game you should get the AK's and early on you get the Garands and Hunting Rifles and it stays that way for a while, but no, you walk into the second mission and pick yourself up an assload of automatics. Makes you think that the raiders are really the decedents of a Chinese force that was on mainland U.S.A. The balance was all wrong, you get a Garand when it's worthless, AK's before the M-14 and then right after you get the M-14 you get the M-16. The AK is a much better rifle in the game while the M-14 sucks ass except it has range. So instead they could have introduced the civilian version early in the game instead, and why does it use the .303 ammo? It's chambered for .308. It's also good for hitting people, but that feature isn't in the game either. It's a fight for survival out there, when you run out of ammunition for your rifle I don't think you would put it away, I think it might be prudent to beat the shit out of your oponent, or toss a bayonet on there, but like I said, that feature isn't in the game. It surprises me that it isn't, especially with all the military rifles floating around, there's no bayonet?

Then there's the weapons that make you think. Things like Axe Handle. Where did the sharp part go? Why don't you find any axe handles with the sharp part on it? I think it might be because the artists didn't want to create an item for the characters that looked like an axe. Maybe we wouldn't notice, or wouldn't give a fuck since all the long guns look like M-16's when people are holding them, why didn't they use the AK design instead? There's far more AK's so it would just make it look better. I think it's because they had been drinking. Same thing goes for sledge hammers, there were none, there's a mini-sledge, but that's not the same thing. If there's a mini-sledge that means there needs to be a sledge that's bigger, but of course we couldn't have that, they had to be at the bar. What's this Fantasy Ball? Looks like it would be a pretty wicked weapon, except I think I only found two in the whole game and by the time you find the damn thing it's not really worth a whole lot. The Plunger. Maybe they got the idea to use this after a night of drinking, developer was talking on the white phone and looked over and thought,"Hey, wouldn't it be cool if you could beat someone to death with a plunger? Barf." I don't know why this is in there, but a Scalpel. Sure, it's sharp but it doesn't do you no good unless you get them in the eye or slice something vital. It does go along with the whole essence of using whatever you got to survive, but still, weren't there any rocks around? I think I would use the scalpel to sharpen a stick so I can stab your punk ass. Now, what about those damn boom bugs? What drugs were they on? The whole concept of a animal that blows up when dropped is so out there that I would be willing to bet they took the brown acid. How does that even work out in nature? God's up there creating stuff and decides that one day we might blow ourself to Hell with our good friend turned worst enemy Atom for sleeping with the commies. So he decides to create some fun critters to set upon the world after the bombs are done doing their thing. He creates mutated rats, giant scorpions and then he fills up a ladybug's ass with Pop-Rocks and Nitro-Glycerin and tells them not to fall. He has a good chuckle and proceeds to watch the fireworks.

I did like how they tossed in some some interesting weapons at least, maybe to make up for the short comings of the rest of the weapons? Probably not, but they were cool anyway. I loved the M29, even though it looks more like the M629, that's my main weapon usually since I'm the commander, I get a sweet gun, the rest of you get communist rifles. The abundance of different spear types for different purposes, especially the Festering Spear, it didn't really have a purpose but it added to the realism I think, it's cheap biological warfare, if you can kill them outright, give them the plague instead. The pump shotgun was a nice touch, in Fallout 1 and 2 you went from double barreled shotgun to automatic shotgun, no medium. The introduction of .45 caliber handguns made it feel more rounded, in Fallout 2 there was the Grease Gun and the Tommy Gun, but no .45 handgun, just seemed odd to me, and a lot of other people. In fact I enjoyed having so many different pistols that all had pretty much the same statistics to them to choose from for personal preference, even though for the most part I used the .44 and my underlings used AK's. I always felt that Fallout was lacking a machete, I mean it's like a sword and gets some good speed going so you can hack through a guy's arm like butter, plus it has range on it too, you don't have to get right up like with a knife, even though you do in the game. The punch dagger was pretty cool too, my friend has one. Seems like it would be a easily concealable weapon, then when the hippie isn't looking you punch him in the side of the head. Speaking of concealed weapons, the Shiv actually works, that one always pissed me off in Fallout 2, I would find people running around with a shiv, does it do anything? No, of course not, they obviously fucked the dog in Fallout 2 on that one.

Well that's about it. If Fallout Tactics were it's own game away from the Fallout universe and fixed some of the problems it could have been a totally kickass game, but it has Fallout on it so people hold it to the same standards as Fallout 1 and 2. Tactics is obviously shit compared to Fallout 1 and 2, like they didn't even try to live up to it.

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:12 pm

Funny post! The whole Beastmasters concept was weak IMO. Yeah, I think the weapons catalogue for the game was designed with the k3w1 factor in mind. It definitely needs lots of pruning. Generic weapons would have been better in several different flavors of modifications. Maybe a new assault rifle, a special ops assault rifle, and an old beat-up assault rifle that doesn't always work, for example instead of having an M16, AK47, etc.

Flamescreen · Post by **Flamescreen** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:03 pm

These are good points, valid.
Also add that they hinted to other games or things like shows with some of the weapons though.

The scalpel seems like noding to Planescape:Torment to me.
The fantasy ball, I don't know. Final Fantasy perhaps? And the Klingon knife, noding to the show.

The rusty old monkey wrench was another bad addition. I prefer OTB's version much better. The bayonette, I think it's the weirdest abscence. Good thing that we have the editors though.

Cheers,

Flamescreen

requiem_for_a_starfury · Thu Oct 23, 2003 7:39 pm

The fantasy ball is from the film Phantasm.

I like the addition of the scapel, it seems a good idea as there would be loads manufactured prewar. I mostly look upon some of the melee weapons as junk items to flesh out the world, rather than just weapons. Most of them I never use anyway but it seems to me better to have items that can double as weapons rather than just having people carry money or drugs etc. The axe handle and micro sledge, I presume these got in rather than an axe and sledge hammer so that the artists didn't have to do more animations per model. Though I'd rather they had added more weapon types to the main characters and to the Vault citizens and other civilians than the custom sprites for the special encounters like the Pipboy, treadmill man and Phil the Nuka Cola guy. I was just watching the end film recently and they had pacification bots firing rockets and the Load Lifter using it's shoulder cannon a la Predator, I wish they had added that to the sprites.

The AK47 was introduced to satisfy the mp crowd but I think they got it confused with the AK112 from the rpgs which was the standard issue to second line troops, so that is probably why it's so common, though I agree they got the weapon progression totally wrong, all these nice new unarmed weapons made worthless because by the end of mission 3 you can buy a powerfist. Most of the firearms should of been made mp only which I think would of made the main campaign more interesting if you had to scrabble for guns and ammo.

I think the lack of a bayonet (or pistol whipping) comes from the way they handled the coding for the attacks, you could add a bayonet attack but it'd cost you 1 round of ammo each time. It kind of seems pointless that they added a load of weapons but then got the ammo screwed up, having the m60 and the SAW use the same ammo makes one of them redundant. They also seem to have got some of the RPG weapons and armour mixed up, the image for the powerfist looks more like a mega powerfist, the avenger mini-guns stats are those of the personal mini-gun (IIRC). The inclusion of the 14mm and 10mm weapons would of added some more variety to the pistols and smgs, rather than having a load of 9mm weapons.

Nightkin244 · Post by **Nightkin244** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 1:12 am

there is a serious overload of 9mm rounds, somethin like 4000 i accumulated after St louis. The beastlord were weak, i would have liked if it was less beastlords more deathclaws, maybe no beastlords and just beasts, then the missions would be kill all deathclaws, it would get dull. Some things were unrealistic, boombugs and all the useless guns, the only 9mm guns i didn't sell were the MP5 and the Sten gun. I found if they got .303 ammo more common and gave you that Bren gun or one of those that runs on .303 in Mardin but had the ammo for it rare or maybe really small/weak bursts. SAW just blew away the M60 i didn't even use it once. SAW all the way.

Paladud · Post by **Paladud** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:09 am

The game needed more vehicles, or at least the possibility of using existing ones on the majority of the levels. St. Louis was probably the most enjoyable mission I've played (got up to Kansas City... see a few topics below. Trying in TB next, with Stoma wielding a Browning). The vehicles dont give you too much durability, but it is unrealistic that my little squad of commandos can have firefights out in the open vs supermutants and generally survive.

Weaponwise... boom bugs were definitely a product of a drug-induced stupor. The M1911 and the magnums should be pretty damaging weapons; these and more shotguns, combined with more close-quarters combat, would have made for a better game. Hell, that might have just made Deathclaws viable.

And what raiders in their right mind would use spears or blunt heavy objects when there are spare guns in a chest several yards away?

requiem_for_a_starfury · Fri Oct 24, 2003 9:57 am

Nah there should of been less vehicles, and definately a converted civillian vehicle rather than a hummer, apc and tank etc. Agreed the game should of allowed vehicles on more maps but to balance things you'd really need vehicle actors, or AI controlled vehicles. Imagine driving around in your armoured yellow taxi being chased by a bunch of raider buggies. Otherwise with the vehicles as they had them they should of treated them as essential npc's through out the game, no matter whether in a mission or RE if the vehicle was destroyed game over.

Flamescreen · Post by **Flamescreen** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:59 pm

I never really used any vehicles in the game, just drived them to the bunkers and left them there, so i don't mind any amount of vehicles in it.

I liked the car from FO2 but these nifty new working cars(with the exclusion of the buggy) just ruin the game for me. That's why I don't use them even in fanmade maps-campaigns.

Cheers,

flamescreen

Stainless · Post by **Stainless** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 4:30 am

requiem_for_a_starfury wrote:Imagine driving around in your armoured yellow taxi being chased by a bunch of raider buggies.

Sounds like the old game Quarantine

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 7:44 am

I liked the addition of the vehichles, although it did make it too easy it was nice to have so you could carry an assload of shit around with you, right up until you get to a mission where you have to leave the car out of the map, then you get to a point in the mission where you need something you left in the damn Hummer. In those missions they should have just put up road blocks and fun shit like that.

the monkey wrenches were okay since a monkey wrench is a nice tool for bashing someone's head in, although I don't know why all the Brotherhood guys were carrying them when there were better and lighter melee weapons, like knives or clubs.

There was a lot of 9mm ammunition but it quickly became pretty useless, especially when you hit the Super Mutants, not only because 9mm does nothing to the Super Mutants, but because all the Super Mutants carries SAW's with like 200 rounds on them, then all that shit was worthless against the robots.

Speaking of robots, when you came to them it was like you were playing a Dune game set during the Butlerian Jihad. It was cool I guess, but not Fallout. I liked it a lot when you destroyed the robots though, they pretty much explode.

On the subject of blowing things away, if ssomeone is running at you and you shoot them a bunch without killing them, they sure do leave a lot of blood behind, then when you do kill them they spray another 10 gallons all over the place, which is cool, but the time they spent getting the blood spray just right could have been used for making a goddamn axe with an axe on it and not just a stick.

atoga · Post by **atoga** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 9:46 pm

Boom bugs = snarks rip-off from Half-Life.

And yes, they were drunk.

Strap · Post by **Strap** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 11:44 pm

They should release fot and remove the "fallout" part, and impliment all your changes. It would be good tactical squad game then.

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:22 pm

Not to whip a dead horse, let's talk about special encounters. I hated most of them...those eastereggs that were basically worth half a chuckle and ruined the atmosphere of the game. I liked the trading encounters, the gas station - not because you got the elixir of life, but because it was one of the few seriously haunting elements in the game - and the uprising encounter. They should have added more "seriuos" special encounters - a small raider camp, the remains of a lost convoy, or somesuch.

I agree, weapons progression was likely handled by a retard. I agree, I missed weapons like the bajonet, the fireaxe, the sledgehammer..instead we got Spears-R-US. I really like the pump-action...I use it till the later levels in the game with a character with increased criticals and slugs/ EMP-ammo. I also liked the handflamer, the punchgun, the punchdagger, the rusty monkeywrench (thudd. crunch.) and the plethora of pistols. I really liked the design of the rocketlauncher. I loathed the acid-sprinkler and hated the design of the normal sized flamer. I only could shake my head at the zoo of WWII weapons (but being inconsistent in my views and easily misled, I was delighted when I could get a Mauser from the first raider). And those exploding bugs were just silly.

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:38 am

I forgot about that acid gun thingie. Jesus, that was just as stupid as the Boom Bugs. Yeah, here's an idea, lets fill a squirt gun made out of cheap flimsy plastic with some of the strongest acids known to man, next we can fill another one with gasoline and make a flame thrower!

Did I mention the soda tabs yet? Those things were worthless beyond worthless, they weren't accepted by the BOS Quarter Master and when I did find someone who used them they didn't have anything I wanted. I usually killed them out of spite.

What was the uprising encounter? I probably saw it but don't remember it.

I thought the punchgun was pretty stupid. Why not have a homemade shotgun instead? There should have been more homemade firearms, not just the zip gun. Should have had at least three zip guns, the pistol, a rifle and a shotgun.

requiem_for_a_starfury · Mon Nov 03, 2003 2:57 am

Uprising was the encounter with two BOS guards in PA outside an outpost surrounded by dead civilians.

I kind of liked the ring pulls, they might not of been intrinsically valuable but they would be very hard to forge in a PA environment. Making them ideal for money (if there was someone backing them like the water merchants). I guess you never tried trading with some of the tribals and ghouls in the bunkers or the Merchant Kerr who appears in the second Bunker.

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:06 am

NO, I guess I didn't see the uprising encounter.

The ring pulls were stupid since I didn't see any cans, just bottles. They should have just kept the bottle caps, they made more sense.

Yossarian · Post by **Yossarian** » Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:55 pm

I liked the punchgun because it would have been oh so sneaky to use with any garment that covers the sleeve. Some guy in trenchcoat punches some other guy in the gut..kaplow. Blood everywhere. It was basically a roleplaying thingie for me...

Aye, I sorely missed widely used primitive handguns. The Speargun from mission one was amove in the right direction, but they left it at that...

Kizmiaz · Post by **Kizmiaz** » Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:28 am

atoga wrote:Boom bugs = snarks rip-off from Half-Life.

I always thought they were an excuse to rip off Terry Pratchett's description of swamp dragons. :roll:

airsoft guy · Post by **airsoft guy** » Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:06 am

So I was playing Tactics once again and I picked up an AUG, and looking at the picture I noticed something odd. It's too small. True, the Steyr AUG is a rather small rifle, but it is longer than that. It's like they couldn't find a picture of a real one and instead got hold of one of these http://airsoftatlanta.com/images/xxuhcminiaug_jpg.jpg I'm sure if they spent six seconds more they could have at least found a fullsized airsoft AUG like this guy http://www.airsoft128.com/store1/images ... 4pk-LG.gif It's still another one of those "why?" weapons. I don't remember hearing anything about the Austrians or Australians. Maybe they tossed it in there because they thought it would be niffty to have their country's rifle of choice, too bad nobody gives a damn.

I also picked up the Calico Liberty 100, seems they made a small boo-boo, A: the Liberty only holds 50 rounds, the Calico Model 100 in .22LR holds 100 rounds, and B: neither of them are fully automatic. Okay, so that's a big boo-boo, where were all the gun-nuts with that mistake? Arm chair commandos, all of them, but then again, so am I, at least I own firearms though.

I'm still waiting for someone to announce a mod for Tactics implementing my changes.

requiem_for_a_starfury · Tue Dec 30, 2003 8:18 am

airsoft guy wrote:So I was playing Tactics once again

I thought we told you to chuck it in the bin.

airsoft guy wrote: and I picked up an AUG, and looking at the picture I noticed something odd. It's too small.

It looks short because of the angle it's at, it's been compressed. But still it looks 100 times better than the inventory picture of the Aug in JA2.

airsoft guy wrote:Okay, so that's a big boo-boo, where were all the gun-nuts with that mistake?

Does anyone actually use any of the Calico pistols in FOT? Looking at the inventory pics of the Fall they've got Calico's as well, darn fashion accessory of a weapon.

airsoft guy wrote:I'm still waiting for someone to announce a mod for Tactics implementing my changes.

FT Tools comes with the 1.27 patch, not too difficult to use, if you get started now you might have it finished by this time next year, or sooner if you stop moaning about it.

Duck and Cover

Boom Bugs? Boom Bugs?! Were they drunk?

Were they drunk when they thought up the Boom Bugs?

Boom Bugs? Boom Bugs?! Were they drunk?