Ideas you can steal from me

[airsoft guy]

At the suggestion of requiem_for_a_starfury I'm going to make a list of ideas you can steal from me. Instead of putting them in a lovely rant format, I'm going to put it into an actual list. Maybe a little ranting, but everything should be easy to find.

Fully automatic weapons are over-rated. Even though it does take place in the United States, that doesn't mean we get MP5s, the powers that be don't think we're mature enough to have them, the pricks. So anyway, stay away from oodles of Uzi's, unless it has something specific to do with the scenario or map or whatever, like if you meet some military personnel. Other than that there should few automatics.

Same deal with energy weapons, they're super cool but they're military weapons, so only military personnel and a few survivors who just happened to be lucky.

As much as I love guns, and I love them a lot, there should be more emphasis on melee weapons. It's a real pisser about melee attacks with firearms not being possible. And bump up the machete to have a range of two instead of one. Machetes got range on them. And toss in a real axe or hatchet. Oh, and no boom bugs, ever.

Someone needs to figure out how to rig up a speech tree system, something, anything so that people can make RPG's out of Tactics. I downloaded one, Fallout Awaken and thought it was pretty nifty, a tad unbalanced (okay it was really unbalanced I thought, I couldn't go for more than 3 squares without running into a ton of raiders, who would of course blow me apart) other than that it had lots of promise, if only you could actually talk to people, instead of having them tell you what to do. How are you supposed to have any choice in the game if you can't tell some prick off? "Hey, go get me this and I'll give you this doohickey, and no haggling. No, I mean it, the game doesn't allow for haggling, hahahaha, fuck you! Where's your Messiah now? You're the Messiah? Ha, fuck you!" Blamo.

More homemade weapons, and not just melee, the zip gun was a nice touch, but there should be a rifle and a shotgun. So at least three, but more would be welcome for other calibers.

Bring in .22LR, it's a very common and cheap round, it would be good for starter guns. Instead of jumping from a knife or spear to a 10mm or .44 or shotgun, you go to a .22 pistol or rifle, a nice Ruger 10/22.

Bah, I'm sick right now, so staring at the computer screen makes me sleepy, so I think I'll go to bed and be back in the morning.

[PaladinHeart]

I like your attitude towards junk/homemade weapons. I agree with most of what you're saying.

Since I haven't really gotten into my campaign much yet, I will try to lay off the automatic weapons. I don't think I put many in yet. Mostly pistols and shotguns. Energy weapons a bit early. But the campaign calls for it, so its there :)

The one thing I strongly disagree with is that you can't have an RPG without dialogue options. I've played a lot of RPG's before that don't have dialogue options. Just because your character/s in FOT had no personality in the main campaign and/or choices does not necessarily mean that the FOT engine is not designed where you can't make an RPG.

There are two kinds of RPG (go figure, there are two kinds of everything eh?). Those that let you play as a character, and those that let you be the character. The first is usually preferable to the latter, as the character tends to have more.. character? But I know 99% of Fallout fans prefer the latter as that is what FO1 and 2 gives em. Albeit I don't think they ever noticed how one-dimensional their characters.

"Give me that or die!"

"Give me money or I'll tell on you."

"Im mr. goodbar smarty pants. Won't you lay down and die for me?"

"(insert sarcastic response here)"

You can mix and match if you want. But the character is still boring, unless you like to use a LOT of imagination. Been better to have the main character voiced by Gilbert Godfrey (or Fran Dresher), and let them do all the snide sarcastic responses by default.

"What? You want me to go to the glow now? Is that all? Maybe I should stop and get you cookies and milk while im at it!"

Still a little bland, but im not that great with dialogue. Star Wars: KOTOR for x-box has another bland main character. Too often the game designer thinks of the player as the character, and fails to give them even as much personality as the villians, if they even give them any personality at all. At least the main character in KOTOR has an interesting backstory after you get 3/4 through the game. Still glad I just rented it.

Err.. my apologies if I complain too much :)

[airsoft guy]

I just think it feels like you're being led around the game, when you have options ats always a bitch when you leave something in the car and you least it gives the illusion that you have a choice.

If there were a game where Gilbert Godfrey or Fran Dresher were playing you, I would not buy that game, in fact, I might murder the store owner for stocking such a shitty game.

I like vehicles, some people don't and not all maps should have them, but if you are going to toss in vehicles and have maps that don't allow vehicles, put in roadblocks instead. It'have to leave it off the map.

Keep the robots to a minimum if you're doing a Fallout mod, go completely ape shit if you're doing something else though (you know, just because it's Fallout Tactics doesn't mean you can't make like The Savage Empire Tactics with it. Well you couldn't because of the lack of dinosaurs).

Replace the ring pulls with bottle caps, or replace all the bottles with cans.

If you want to make a mod, why not do an entire campaign centered around the raiders? I thought the raiders were the coolest bad guys. They made it for me. You are the police officers of the wasteland, and the raiders were the fuckwits you had to assrape with a plunger. Now isn't that better than those fucking robots?

Tactics was also missing large cities I thought, which are fun. I love it when people come back to the cities and sort of rebuild.

[Kashluk]

If I remember correct, there was one way around the whole dialogue tree problem... It was a custom made Single Player map for FOT, where after you talked to the chief, the chief character turned into three identical chief characters. Each chief now had their name "Chief" replaced with the following

-"Tell Me More"
-"I Will Do It"
-"I Don't Want To"

So now you clicked the chief you wanted to chat with. If you clicked the "Tell Me More"-chief, he would tell you more about the mission(?). If you clicked the "I will do it"-chief, you'd accept a quest and launch a few triggers.

[PaladinHeart]

Yeah but why waste the time when 90% of the players are going to choose "tell me more" and then talk again and choose "I'll do it".

It could make for interesting different paths, but you could alternately make one complex plot twisting path and do without the dead ends that are a waste of time, in my opinion.

Anyway, its all just opinions and everyone has their own idea about how to do stuff. I don't really see why so many people hate the FOT robots. Maybe they were too hard? I always disliked the enclave moreso, for that same reason. But I disliked the enclave more than the robots from FOT. Fo2 was really only fun up until you have to go rescue your people. Then its just building up and too much fighting towards the end (or no fighting at all, depending on how much you like to sneak around).

I also felt that party interaction was severly lacking. But a considerable improvement from FO1. At least your party members can level up properly in FOT. Not that halfwit "small chance to level when you do" stuff.

[PaladinHeart]

I just think it feels like you're being led around the game, when you have options ats always a bitch when you leave something in the car and you least it gives the illusion that you have a choice.

Im not sure I understand you but are you saying you don't like keys? I think games are too easy if you can just let go and kill everything in sight and win without having to do any side quests and/or puzzles.

If there were a game where Gilbert Godfrey or Fran Dresher were playing you, I would not buy that game, in fact, I might murder the store owner for stocking such a shitty game.

I would say that's not a very good reason, but I don't buy games just because they have the name Bioware on them :-/ I don't mind renting them, however, since I can win on them quickly.

I like vehicles, some people don't and not all maps should have them, but if you are going to toss in vehicles and have maps that don't allow vehicles, put in roadblocks instead. It'have to leave it off the map.

I totally agree. There will be a lot of vehicles in my campaign and their main purpose will be item storage, transportation, and speed. The characters themselves will eventually have more life than the toughest vehicle, so using vehicles for protection won't be good for long.

Keep the robots to a minimum if you're doing a Fallout mod, go completely ape shit if you're doing something else though (you know, just because it's Fallout Tactics doesn't mean you can't make like The Savage Empire Tactics with it. Well you couldn't because of the lack of dinosaurs).

There will be very few robots except where applicable to the storyline. A large part of my campaign will call for them, but they will only be a part of that one section.

Replace the ring pulls with bottle caps, or replace all the bottles with cans.

I kept them both but made bottlecaps worth more.

If you want to make a mod, why not do an entire campaign centered around the raiders? I thought the raiders were the coolest bad guys. They made it for me. Now isn't that better than those robots?

Raiders are kinda wimpy but good for early quests. Sure I guess its fun to have wimpy guys to splatterize with your plasma rifle, but I don't really think im ready to center my entire campaign around them. (already have other plans, actually). There will be constant raiders and different hostile clans throughout my campaign though, so you should get your fill.

Tactics was also missing large cities I thought, which are fun. I love it when people come back to the cities and sort of rebuild

Old cities and/or ruins with some new settlements will make up at least 50%, if not more, of the towns in my camaign. Most will be large. I also have ideas of the player helping one small town grow into a much larger city, but have not got around to implementing it yet. My basic outline is to make it steadily go from junkyard to "nice humble town with lots of places to trade and get unique and/or hard to get items" Something like the NCR or vault city but hopefully more useful.

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

Yeah but why waste the time when 90% of the players are going to choose "tell me more" and then talk again and choose "I'll do it".

I like the clone system but I think it would be better if once you choose one dialogue path the others disapear for good.

I don't really see why so many people hate the FOT robots. Maybe they were too hard?

Not because they were too hard (once you know what are the best weapons against them they're not that hard at all) but because they've got no character. It's much more fun blowing up some poor raider or SM than some piece of machinery. Though I did think the hoverbots and scurry bots were a nice addition, those scurry bots (used correctly) can sure make you jump when they suddenly pop out of the ground, even when you're expecting them.

There will be a lot of vehicles in my campaign and their main purpose will be item storage, transportation, and speed. The characters themselves will eventually have more life than the toughest vehicle, so using vehicles for protection won't be good for long.

The best thing to do with vehicles is make them extremely valuable so if one dies you can either end the mission as in Macomb, or give your player a reputation penalty or even open up a bonus mission where the player has to redeem themselves before they can get on with the campaign.

Raiders are kinda wimpy but good for early quests. Sure I guess its fun to have wimpy guys to splatterize with your plasma rifle, but I don't really think im ready to center my entire campaign around them.

If you're taking out most of the automatic and energy weapons then I think a campaign around raiders could work, if you're mostly limited to unarmed/melee, throwing and homemade weapons up to at least halfway through the campaign. Perhaps having hostile groups of tribals or ghouls to vary things.

[PaladinHeart]

Not because they were too hard (once you know what are the best weapons against them they're not that hard at all) but because they've got no character. It's much more fun blowing up some poor raider or SM than some piece of machinery. Though I did think the hoverbots and scurry bots were a nice addition, those scurry bots (used correctly) can sure make you jump when they suddenly pop out of the ground, even when you're expecting them.

Hmm... Well most of the raiders failed to have any personality either. Unless they were a boss or other important character. Thanks for the heads up though. I will try and make my robots more interesting than those found within MicroForte's campaign. Actually, I just had a very good idea for how to do this.

The best thing to do with vehicles is make them extremely valuable so if one dies you can either end the mission as in Macomb, or give your player a reputation penalty or even open up a bonus mission where the player has to redeem themselves before they can get on with the campaign.

There will, of course, be instances where a vehicle is required in order to progress. So the player will simply have to reload if they somehow get it destroyed.

Since no stuffy organization holds sway over the heroes of my campaign, an imposed penalty for the wrecking of a vehicle in itself wouldn't make sense. The vehicles they get will mostly be salvaged stuff anyway. I could see it happening though if they were working for someone like the BOS and they were issued a hummer for example.

If you're taking out most of the automatic and energy weapons then I think a campaign around raiders could work, if you're mostly limited to unarmed/melee, throwing and homemade weapons up to at least halfway through the campaign. Perhaps having hostile groups of tribals or ghouls to vary things.

I can possibly add in a group of raiders that could pose a major threat. Especially if that would make everyone happy. "Variety is the spice of life" they always say. "The more the merrier" as some others put it. I can't make any promises though since I already have enough villian ideas to fill a umm.. really big hat?

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

Hmm... Well most of the raiders failed to have any personality either. Unless they were a boss or other important character. Thanks for the heads up though. I will try and make my robots more interesting than those found within MicroForte's campaign. Actually, I just had a very good idea for how to do this.

Well I was refering to the animations, the death animations (IMHO) for the organics are lot funnier than for the mechanicals, but I suppose, thinking about it, the little asides with the raider leaders and other organic opponents did add more personality to the missions than the robot ones.

Since no stuffy organization holds sway over the heroes of my campaign, an imposed penalty for the wrecking of a vehicle in itself wouldn't make sense... I can possibly add in a group of raiders that could pose a major threat.

Sorry I wasn't refering to your campaign personally but to Airsoft's ideas in general.

[PaladinHeart]

Yeah I think that if the robots actually talked to the player a bit more (actually acknowledging that they exist before getting to the end of the game), that the campaign would have been a lot better. Even the robots in the new prequel star wars movies gained from having some dialogue. The roller bots were cool, but the little wimpy robots were for more interesting due to dialogue. Evil robots should always be talkative :) Even the brain thingy at the end of FOT had little to no personality though, even with dialogue.

What's airsoft? At any rate, no offense taken. I always appreciate more ideas whether I use em or not :)

[Kashluk]

Airsoft = a sport, where you have "wars" with realistic looking and feeling modern military equipment, except guns only shoot out these little plastic balls.

airsoft guy = the creator of this thread.

[PaladinHeart]

Oh, silly me. Hadn't even noticed. Or rather, failed to remember?

[bertgoldstein]

IIf you want to make a mod, why not do an entire campaign centered around the raiders? I thought the raiders were the coolest bad guys. They made it for me. You are the police officers of the wasteland, and the raiders were the fuckwits you had to assrape with a plunger. Now isn't that better than those fucking robots?

You'll like my campaign then. It's all raiders, all the time. Plus the occasional super mutant and reaver that has joined up with them.

I think the key to keeping human opponents difficult is limiting big guns and armor that's impentrable to small arms.

Plus you could always have the raiders become a bigger threat with better homemade weapons (homeade explosives, one of these etc.) Just because it's homemade doesn't mean it has to be a useless oneshot weapon like the pipe rifle was. I also think it'd be good if you could make sniper weapons more powerful, where one raider with a scoped hunting rifle take out several squad memebers vietcong style.

Or you could have the raiders use stolen brotherhood equpiment or having stumbled onto massive firepower like the new reno family getting into the seirra army depot.

Or you could leave them like in the original game and have them just be lovably innefectual like Cobra fighting GI Joe.

The only robot that really had a personality was Barnaky, but then he was pretty much the best developed character in the game (getting his own ending.) Personally I'd like to see more characters like him, someone who is basically a good guy, but goes about it the wrong way. That's the kind of moral ambiguity we had in fallout 1 and 2.

I think the main problem with the robots and the story in general was that is was too episodic. You fought the raiders, then you fought the beastlords, and then you fought the mutants and so on. It didn't do a good job of building up to a final conflict. The first time you when you hear the Calculators name it comes with no build up and explanation, they just start talking about it in the breifing, and you don't really hear about vault zero until it comes out of nowhere in a cutscene. It would have been nice to have more a build up to that sort of revelation.[/url]

[airsoft guy]

Listen, I'll murder whomever I want to for whatever reason I want, especially games with shitty people doing the main character's voice. Gilbert Godfrey I could maybe live with as a sidekick, but if that bitch Drescher is in that game anywhere, with the exception of being killed, I'll have to murder somebody. Let that be a warning to all game makers.

I hate puzzles in games that aren't puzzle games. I want to kill people, not play Simon Says. I might as well just go look at some transgender porn, it would be much more entertaining I believe, and much more puzzle worthy. I mean, c'mon, it's got a weiner and a pair of boobs, that's a puzzler.

Robots are okay in moderation. I just didn't think the robots were Fallout robots, you know, the half sized Robot from Lost in Space looking things. Instead we get these super advanced walking robots. The reason I keep referencing Dune when I talk about them is because they look the way the robots in Dune: The Butlerian Jihad are described. In fact a Dune type map or campaign might be pretty fun. You're the leader of a Fremen commando squad. You go out and conduct Razzia raids on Harkonnen hidden spice stockpiles. It would be interesting in ways of tactics, the Harkonnens all carry laser rifles (lasguns) while the Fremen usually rely on hand-to-hand combat and using stealth to get in too close for the Harkonnens to use their lasguns. Is there a way to put in a minimum range for weapons? Like say, you can't shoot someone if they're closer than two squares away. You're on the ground hiding when a Harkonnen patrol comes in, you jump up right in front of the Harkonnen, you're too close to fire so he busts out his knife and you have a nice duel. Sounds like fun to me. Please, somebody steal that one from me.

Cities and towns would play a big role in a Dune scenario. Who really wants to have battles where there isn't anyplace to hide? So cave Sietches, small outlying towns and of course the two large cities of Arakeen and Carthage. I mean, who didn't want to kill the Baron? It doesn't have to be completely true to Dune, just keep technical details as correct as possible. You know, play around a little, or just make single maps of important battles in the Dune universe. The epic battle between the Fremen led by Muad'dib against the Harkonnens and the Emperor, or some of the battles from Muad'dib's Jihad or maybe a quickee map where you control Paradot Kynes and Liet Kynes when they walk into Bilar Camp, I believe, and have to kill a bunch of the people because they were poisoned with diluted Spice Essence by a Harkonnen patrol. Could be the start of a whole campaign where you try to get rid of your Harkonnen overlord, like I said before. I think a really cool map would be the retaking of Ix from the Tleilaxu, it would be giant, and maybe a campaign of it's own, the world map being a map of the underground city of Vernii. Get a move on, this is pure mod maker gold.

How would you do shields though? And if someone is hit with a laser while wearing a shield, well, kiss it goodbye. Might have to take some. We can always fib that one a little. Too bad there isn't any swords in Tactics, it would be pretty cool to take the role of Duncan Idaho with the Old Duke's ginormous broadsword, hacking the heads off Imperial Sardaukar hopped up on Amal.

God, there are so many fucking possibilities if you went with a Dune game. Al lot of the things in Tactics look like they could be put into a Dune game quite easily. There aren't any really fat guys though, are there?

Anyway, back to other concerns. I like the idea of redeeming yourself, instead of having to reload, that pissed me off. I'll take the F and the alternate assignment, Jesus, bitch.

Those aren't exactly "homemade" weapons, they're more like fun kits that you toss on top of your AK clone or Ruger 10/22 for teh hahaz. I had an idea to modify a 10/22 to fire full-auto, it involved one of those little cranks and a power drill plus a couple of those 50 and 100 round magazines for them. Maybe sometime in the future, after that fucking '94 AWB expires. Fuck you Clinton. Whoa, I was so overcome with rage I almost passed out. Time to cut back on my salt intake, methinks.

"Homemade" weapons could be AK-47's and such. That's how firearms used to be made. Some guy would come up with a design, then he would build it from scratch, machining all the parts and such, so it's only natural that you would find homemade single-shot, repeating, semi-automatic and even fully-automatic weapons. Just have to have the right tools, resources, and of course skill.

[PaladinHeart]

Did I forget to mention that the thing about Fran and Gilbert doing the voices is an old joke about Fallout 2's main character? Before the game was made, someone teased that it would be done with their voices.

Im not a big fan of dune. Of course, I don't think I ever watched any of the movies or even read any of the books. Maybe seen the movie when I was younger but don't remember it now.

As for puzzles, FOT just doesn't stimulate my brain's gears enough as-is. I just think it could be done better, in a lot of various ways. But, i'll have you know, the simon says parts will not be very numerous. There will likely be more "simon does not say" where you have to figure out, on your own, what you should do next (possibly with several possible solutions?).

If you want mindless slaughter, you might want to try FOT Multiplayer 10k. You'll die as often as you kill stuff, and the people suck in general, but its definitely mindless slaughter (or you could play a map with 500 unarmed critters vs you with your explosive 500 damage crowbar)

[airsoft guy]

Well, don't you wish that they were the main voices in Fallout 2? Then I could have killed quite a few people at Intersuck, thus saving the world from some evil, no?

You should go read Dune, heathen. Frank Herbert was born not more than 20 miles away from where I live.

Puzzles are fine, just not those big stupid ones like at the end of Fallout 2 in the Oil Rig. It was like something out of a James Bond movie, I was almost expecting to meet Dr. No or have to fight Knick-Knack.

I hate Tactics' multiplayer system, I just don't think it's a very good system what with the whole top-down type thing. Maybe if you were playing a co-op type map where you had a couple of freinds commanding their own squads. Like in the WW2 mod, although I never played it so I don't know what it's like.

So I was off thinking more about a Dune campaign. It seems that the Fremen are the Jack-of-all-trades when it comes to combat and sneaking around, which their skill levels will show, that's why a squad of six Fremen commandos can infiltrate a heavly guarded Harkonnen Spice warehouse, plant a bomb, then if they have to fight their way out without taking so much as a scratch.

Then the Harkonnens aren't very bright or skilled when it comes to fighting the Fremen, and they usually don't have a chance to learn from their mistakes, because if you drop the ball while fighting with a Fremen, you're going to get cut, then fed to the Deathstills. Sure they've got numbers and equipment, but that's all useless if you sneak up on them, or blow their stuff up before they can get it off the ground. They would wear they Enviromental Armor, I just think that's what they would look like. It's heavy armor compared to what the Fremen would wear, but that's not always the best way to go.

Then there's the Sardaukar. They've got even more numbers, and even more equipment, and their training is comparible with that of the Fremen in most of the same things, except sneaking and covert stuff like that. The Sardaukar are more about shooting things and smashing people, causing a general rukus amongst the enemy. I think the Sardaukar would wear the Power Armor, it's big and imposing. Just scary to look at, and that's what the Sardaukar's got going for them, the fear of them.

The Atreides would have the same deal going for them as the Harkonnens, except they don't have as many people, their equipment isn't as good, but they too are feirce fighters like the Fremen, and are loyal to their Duke because, unlike other Houses, he treats his people good, so his soldiers are willing to die for him, and are very skilled in combat.

I'm really thinking someone could get their ass put on the mod making map if they were to execute Dune well.

[airsoft guy]

So I'm thinking it might be prudent to make an update of sorts.

So what about Lasguns? They're like the ultimate in small arms in the Dune universe. Pull the trigger and you sweep it in front of you and you can hack down a whole charging army, of course they're probably wearing shields, but that's beside the point, my point is, how would you implement a system where the vast majority of your enemies have these spuer spiffy weapons, while you have knives and a few Maula Pistols or flechette guns.

Here's how it goes, the Lasguns just won't have a high accuracy. 80% of the time you won't be able to hit anyone with the damn thing, you balance that out with a high rate of fire, so if you run up against a bunch of troops using volley fire, there's a good chance you'll get hit, but in squad level combat you'll have a good chance of wasting them.

Unfortunatly there aren't any pictures of any of these, except maybe the Crysknife http://home.insightbb.com/~ferguson188/ ... yskife.gif That's about what one would look like, and is made from the tooth of a Sandworm.

In fact you will have replace almost the entire weapon catolog, and a sizeable chunk of all other items to fit, so it's also a chance for some people to practice making item images. The descriptions in the books are not that detailed, allowing you to use your imagination, which would be nice to see instead of things we've all seen before. AK-47= boring, fan designed Maula Pistol = super foxy.

Anyway, it's late and I need to touch it before my bedy-bye time.

[OnTheBounce]

So what about Lasguns? They're like the ultimate in small arms in the Dune universe. Pull the trigger and you sweep it in front of you and you can hack down a whole charging army, of course they're probably wearing shields, but that's beside the point...

Considering the dangerous pyrotechnics that Lasguns produce when brought into conflict w/shields I'd have to say that it's hardly beside the point. There's just no way w/the FoT engine to do that.

Actually, the shields would be the main crimp in the plans of a Dune mod. There's no way to accurately simulate them, since you couldn't say set up a knife w/two modes w/two different types of damage, where one mode simulates normal fighting, while the other (doing a lower number of damage points) reflects the slow movements of a shield fighter.

(I'm shocked at how much I remember about Dune, considering that it'll be 20 years this fall since I read it. :oops: )

OTB

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

I suppose you could try and simulate the effect of lasguns hitting a shield by creating a entity for the shield and then having variables set up for if player x has a lasgun equipped, player y has a shield on (equipped) and player y has less than 99% attribute hitpoints then use the kill player trigger or just play the nuke movie and end the game to the fail screen. Vice Versa for player x having a shield equipped and player y with a lasgun etc.

As for the effect of the shield against other weapons, perhaps make a lock pick entity and have it give a high AC bonus (not DT or DR) when equipped. Then you could have a weapon with a second mode that costs more APs, and has a high accuracy bonus but has a low (less than 1) damage multiplyer.

[airsoft guy]

Well, if you set it on Dune you wouldn't really have to worry about personal shields because nobody wears them, the worms don't like them very much. Like I said though, might have to fib it with shields, we just pretend they don't exist to make things easier on the player and the mod maker. I think it would suck all the fun out of it if every five minutes you had to reload the game because half the planet was vaporized thanks to one of your teammate's shitty choices of a target.

They sort of fixed the problem with Emperor: Battle for Dune by just having a small explosion killing units in the immediate vicinity. It's not true to the books, but some bad shit does happen.