Are consols antichrist?

Mismatch · Post by **Mismatch** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:43 pm

First I'd like to say hi all, I've been checking theese forums out for quite a while, but I just recently registered.

Well, I've been thinking about consols and how the recent increase in consol popularity have lowered the quality of games in general. Of course there are exceptions, but the fact is that most consol games are linear, rather flat plotted and in many cases even moronic. And now this trend has taken hold within the PC gaming scene too.
To be honest, really, the quality of games have decreased over the years, maybe it is because more work is being put into graphics and less development money is left for plot and gameplay.

But well, I think you can spot more and more similarities betweed PC and consol games, and this has to be because of the fact that many companies release their games for both platforms.

Much of what I write here is already common knowledge (but I felt I had to post something and this is what is currently on my mind) but I am curious, does anyone disagree?

And finally, a question to the interplay management (should they ever in their mislead lives come across this post):

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO BE SO EVIL????

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 7:54 pm

Consoles have been around since the beginning and in my opinion they are for a niche market. Why buy a console when most PC's are just as powerful and can handle many more tasks? I dunno, maybe I'm old fashioned - I like to have an all-in-one tool. I can think of very few interesting games on the console whereas there are many more PC games that interest me.

I think the current trend for making games to work on both media is just a trend. Most consumers are complaining about this so it will probably be a failed experiment.

PaladinHeart · Post by **PaladinHeart** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:38 pm

Well I basically think action games are console games and the more thought provoking games (like RPG's) are PC games.

I don't hate console games. As a matter of fact I rather enjoy some of them (gasp!). Its just a plain fact that you can't make an action game on the PC that demands a lot of buttons unless it is a certain genre. Third person action games generally work much better on the console. That's what the handy little controller is for. And you won't get a ton of slowdown from the hefty graphics (the biggest culprit I can think of here is the new EA Lord of the Rings games, you just can't do that with a keyboard!). I just couldn't imagine playing the GTA games on the PC as well. It'd be a nightmare.

The reverse is true for throughtful games that require a pointer. I'd never want to play something like starcraft or warcraft on the console, or even the fallout games. Given a different format, it could work, but most of the time the control scheme is totally out of whack. There are only a very few games that can work on both platforms. Consoles in general are fickle though. You can have a game that works fine on one system but be a clunky uncontrollable nightmare on another.

So, bluntly, you have to have a lot of readily accessible buttons ready on the console. But on the PC you need customizability, easy access, and time to think. And the controller just doesn't make a good mouse.

I do wish they'd get some more creative talent in the gaming industry and quick popping out a sports/fighting/racing/wrestling/shooter/tomclancy game every week. Its downright stagnant.

evilmonkey · Post by **evilmonkey** » Thu Jan 22, 2004 9:03 pm

I play more on the console then on the PC - S2 being the only PC game to really grab med since JA2 and FO1 and 2 - besides the sweet shareware and freeware games on the PC though - played rRootage to death.

but thats more or less the problem, I prefer games that are either too small in the west to be made and sold to the PC, but big enough in the east to get on a console - and then you get R-Type Final and a few others like Ikaruga dropping by - again on consoles - every now and then.

but the free shmup games for the PC is alive and well, and the old classics are still worth playing.

Besides 03 was a neat year on the console, with PAL version of Ikaruga, Dark Cloud 2, Zelda, Vietiful joe, Mario & Lugi SSS etc.

and with R-Type Final around the corner 04 looks to be an other good console year for me.

...and on the PC S3 is coming

ExtremeDrinker · Post by **ExtremeDrinker** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:43 pm

Lets see..I play RPGs on the PC..That's really all. Right now I'm in the middle of Gothic II. On my Xbox, I'm playing one level at a time on Dr. Muto, and alternating with Vexx and The Hobbit. I prefer platformers on my console and RPG and FPS on the PC.

The Gaijin · Post by **The Gaijin** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:07 pm

No offense to the guy who started the topic (you're kinda new and all), but, Jesus Christ haven't we been over this topic a bajillion times before? It's like the PC vs Mac argument; both sides are right, both sides are wrong, and it usually ends up with both sides looking mildly retarded. That being said, consoles are not "teh suck", but they're no better than PCs. Both have their niche markets and both fufilll their purpose well.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:07 pm

Jimmyjay86 wrote:Consoles have been around since the beginning and in my opinion they are for a niche market.

50 million PS2's, 13 million Xbox's...um, a 15 BILLION dollar market is NOT a niche market by any stretch of the imagination. RPG's could arguably be a niche market in comparison, but eh, there doing pretty well with KotoR and NWN.

Adventure games ( Monkey Island, Grim Fandango )...now THATS a niche market.

Well you get the idea...and no, 'consoles' are not the antichrist...thats ludicrous...as mass market appeal HAS made the industry as robust as it is. Without the mainstream ( think 1983 - 1984 kids when the games market crashed ) there would most like be nothing BUT niche games and be more a fad than anything.

You should thank consoles for making it the money biz it is. There ARE awesome games for consoles ( even if only a few proportionally ), and dev's are encouraged to work harder to create the 'next great game' and to deliver experiences more grand than the last.

But if you're not a real gamer, then this probably means nothing. If all you want is another Fallout, then yes, in your eyes this industry is lacking.

Explore a little past your prejudices though, and you will be surprised.

Cheers

Jimmyjay86 · Post by **Jimmyjay86** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:56 pm

Steve, the console market is primarily aimed at teenagers who game. While there are a fuck of a lot of teenagers around the world, the fact stands that more people have access to computers than to consoles. I am not a teen and don't get off on the titles that are available for the console because they are not aimed at my demographic. That doesn't mean I don't game but it means I need to play something more than just a mindless action game to get me excited. A few of the games I liked over the years are:

The Incredible Machine
Jagged Alliance
Fallout
Arcanum
Civilization
Myst
Grim Fandango
Sim City

These types of games don't excite console players and would never sell IMO. The main reason is because they take a mentality greater than a teenager to be interested in them. But that is my demographic

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 8:33 pm

First off, the avg. gamer is my age, 28 +/-. Didn't know that did ya?

Second, by definition of "niche", as you tried to opine, the console market is FAR from being a niche...so it was kinda a silly thing to say no?

Third, I wasn't speaking only to you as being a gamer or not; that was generally speaking to the intial post author and whomever else it pertains.

All the games you listed are my favorite games as well ( accept Myst, which is t3h gh4y IMO ), but you're wrong if you think that those games wouldn't appeal to console gamers. They don't appeal to the 'guy off the street' gamer. But for people who are truely gamers, young or old I haven't found anyone not willing to try games of those genres, and then they more than not will end up enjoying them. Case in point...me...my favorite games and fondest memories come from games of yore, when I was a teenager...Scott Adams Adventures to the early years Sierra and Lucasarts. The entire Ultima, Might and Magic and Bards Tale Series. Wasteland. I played EVERYTHING. My first system ( as was everyones I suppose ) was the Atari 2600...a console...then on to Colecovision, Atari 5200...jump to computers in my early teens, Vic20 , C64, Amiga500 ( best version of Adventure Construction Set EVAR ), then saved my money for a year to buy my first Gateway 386-33 DX, for a $2200 cashiers check ( one of the more exciting days of my life )...JUST to play Ultima 6 as I drooled for the new 256 color graphics...that and Lucasarts Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis(little did I know that computer would bring me to where I am right now, developing games).

Whats my point? Its silly to think in black and white, and yes while there are non-gamers from whom the game industry wants their bucks, there are a LOT more 'hardcore' gamers, if you will, that do pine for deeper gameplay(just look at the games that are being resurrected and ported to consoles[Monkey Island])...and as I said....they are not just on PC but everywhere. Take a gander at the games that make it to reviewers top 1 or 2 ( reviewers that are our age mind you )...those games are truely masterpieces, full of art and depth...full of quality. Just because it doesn't have pages of stats or deep narrative doesn't mean it isn't 'deep game'. Thats just elitism at that point.

You just need to tone down the sensationalism of how horrible the console market is and look around.

Cheers

ExtremeDrinker · Post by **ExtremeDrinker** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:38 pm

I loved The Incredible Machine. I found that it is abandonware, so I put it on all the machines at work. The kids absolutely love it because they have no idea they're actually learning about cause/effect.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:48 pm

Jimmyjay86 wrote:These types of games don't excite console players and would never sell IMO. The main reason is because they take a mentality greater than a teenager to be interested in them. But that is my demographic

I'm 19, and I played and liked a lot (except Myst) all the games you listed. I played FO at 13-14 years old and it became my favorite game as soon as I played it. Today's teenagers aren't the same, I think they took a BIG drop in maturity.

Anyhow, good games are made on consoles, apart from the FFs, morel ess known games are interesting. Manhunt, old school Rampart on the genesis, Shiing Force, I had this little Sci Fi game on my genesis too, very nice.

EDIT : Hmm I just thought abotu the fact the good console games are the ones that sell the less, so maybe you are right, teenagers suck.

Franz Schubert · Post by **Franz Schubert** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:52 pm

Gaijin wrote:It's like the PC vs Mac argument

No, at least consoles have SOME strong points.

EvoG wrote:First off, the avg. gamer is my age, 28 +/-. Didn't know that did ya?

No, and I don't believe you.

The Incredible Machine is an example of what Sierra was capable of in their prime. Now, they are pretty much going down the tubes along with Interexcrement.

ExtremeDrinker · Post by **ExtremeDrinker** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:55 pm

Actually, after visiting Japan, I think American and European youth are a lot more mature. The kids/teens in Japan are completely out of their heads. I've never seen so many boys giggling like school-girls at stupid videogames in my entire life.

Look at the Pokemon craze. Mainly Kindergarten and First graders enjoyed that here in the US...But in Japan, it seemed a nation-wide thing.

Eh..I don't think this had anything at all to do with the topic, really.

Franz Schubert · Post by **Franz Schubert** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 9:59 pm

Pokemon pwns. Actually I used to watch it, though this was before it hit the US as a craze. When I was like 10 it was on obscure channels at odd times, and anyway it was pretty cool. But once Nintendo bought the rights and then you couldn't order a Happy Meal without being bombarded by kids shouting Pikachu!! I knew it was time to find a new anime.

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:57 pm

the console does have its perks.. .for one thing you can RENT games pretty much anywhere. That's a big bonus considering most of these games are 40/50 bucks and have much less gameplay than your average pc game. QA is usually better since it has to be approved by the console company. where as publishers don't seem to give a shit how unplayable a game is for the pc. there's a wider audience for developers and more money. Plus there's also the party aspect, if you have roommates or if you have friends over you're going to want to play on a console rather than on your pc. Sure you can have a lan party and have everyone lug their computer over, network everything up... but the console is already a built in lan party, bring your own controller if need be, plug in, sit down on the couch and you're set. And for developers/publishers there's also less of a threat of piracy (at least domestically).. Most of us who are pc gamers have a very good idea where to start looking for juarez. While most people who are console gamers don't know who's the local chip installer/etc. It's a lot more complicated than downloading a file and burning it to a CD. The problem is the market is saturated with too many awful games like FOBOS and Pick Up Truck Rampage Racing 15. Nobody bothers to make deep RPGs for the console because they restrict themselves to what's been predefined. Thankfully there have been a lot of improvements made to consoles over the last few years and hopefully we'll see someone bring a game like fallout to a console near us soon.

to call it an antichrist or instrument of doom is pretty fucking stupid. its just another platform that's more accessible to people. No driver issues, no gfx card issues. etc.

S4ur0n27 · Post by **S4ur0n27** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:58 pm

Why the fuck would you order an Happy Meal?

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:03 pm

Franz_Schubert wrote:
EvoG wrote:First off, the avg. gamer is my age, 28 +/-. Didn't know that did ya?
No, and I don't believe you.

Of course you don't because all I do is lie and make shit up, right?

Forbes
http://www.forbes.com/business/newswire ... 66768.html

Playstation Magazine
http://www.futurenetworkusa.com/pdf/psm ... rofile.pdf

Official Xbox Mag
http://www.futurenetworkusa.com/pdf/oxm ... rofile.pdf

PC Gamer
http://www.futurenetworkusa.com/pdf/pcg ... rofile.pdf

Fragland
http://www.fragland.net/?page=newsitem&nid=6514

Gaming World X referencing the Entertainment Software Association
http://www.gamingworldx.com/news/GamingOldMen.shtml

( god I love this smiley )

Cheers

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:04 pm

s4ur0n27 wrote:Why the fuck would you order an Happy Meal?

Teeny tiny fries and teeny tiny hamburgers...plus, like my cereal box, I like to read something when I'm eating.

Oh! and the toys

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:10 pm

i've always been a mcnugget man myself. love ground up rat meat. MM MM!

The Gaijin · Post by **The Gaijin** » Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:06 am

I'm pretty sure McDonald's puts carcinogens in everything except their chicken nuggets.