Duck and Cover

As a new initiate to Fallout Tactics and longtime Fallout player, I have to say I was mostly attracted to the old-style turn-based play. I did however decide to try out the new 'real-time' (CTB) mode, and was somewhat disappointed. I felt I'd gotten faster action at the expense of control. Between the friendly fire casualties and not being able to react quickly enough to all the enemies, CTB made it harder than ever just to get through the mission alive. Anyone else have a different experience?

I used to play nothin' but STB, but that got old real quick. It's a lot easier to pull off ambushes and things in CTB, so that's what I play, and that's what I make my maps for.

The end of the game is pretty damn hard in CTB, by the way...

Personally, I was dead-set against any sort of RT option for FoT when it was in development. However, the Preoria mission got me to tinkering with CTB, then I used it for traveling on the World Map and by Springfield in that game I was hooked.

You are absolutely correct that one of CTB's shortcomings is that you don't have enough control. Hence, you have to set up your battles before they begin. Once they begin, you're not a Squad Leader, but rather a Chaos Controller. Usually I have one person who is the "star" of a skirmish and the other five are "supporting actors". Who is in what role depends on the situation, though.

My own SP campaign is designed with CTB rather than TB in mind. I'm that sold on it. However, I still enjoy putzing around in TB combat in the RPGs where micromanaging my character is far more important than in FoT.

I agree w/Max that the end of the game is rather hard on CTB. There are also some missions that were cakewalks in TB mode that are nightmares in CTB. This goes both ways, though.

Cheers,

OTB

they both have their moments

turn based allows for precise tactical maneuvers and strategic planning, but can be frustratingly slow at times especially when your guys miss shots each turn again and again at 45% chance to hit

CTB is difficult to manage, your guys tend to fire at anything which moves and half the time, you blow up your own team with a grenade
however it has its moments in the early stage of the game when you can pull off those ambushes etc and is great for speeding things up

I like playing TB more than CTB. Its a lot more time consuming but it tends to keep the friendly fire down. Also it makes killing Deathclaws a bit easier since they usually knock you down a lot.

Nutter wrote:...[H]alf the time, you blow up your own team with a grenade...

If you're doing this you should manage your grenadier better. The best place to use them from is an elevated perch, just like they showed you in the tutorial. Also, if you're going to have your grenadier lobbing grenades, he/she should be the "star" player like I mentioned above.

Cheers,

OTB

Thanks for the input everyone... Well, after playing a few more missions I've come to the conclusion that yes, they both have their place.

I've learned not to have anyone with burst weapons while in CTB (too many accidents), but otherwise it greatly speeds up the game especially in levels like Preoria, with 50 damn roaches in every room. One thing which worked particularly well in this mode was loading up a jeep with 2 snipers and a shotgun dude, and just driving around town. Those rooftop raiders never had a chance

On the other hand, STB makes it a lot easier to manage your troops and pull off some kind of strategy, as well as conserve ammo and stay alive longer. It's this flexibility that makes the game fun.

On an unrelated topic, I drove my newly acquired hummer to Preoria, but found it was gone when I reached my destination. Is it somewhere else, or is this a bug?

Slashco wrote:On an unrelated topic, I drove my newly acquired hummer to Preoria, but found it was gone when I reached my destination. Is it somewhere else, or is this a bug?

The only time you can use a vehicle on a mission map is when they are put there for you. Otherwise you get your vehicle back after completing your mission and going back onto the world map.

I really really like the real time mode.... one primary reason for buying the game. IT's awesome

I'm a hardened CTB'er and hope we get this option if FO3 ever happens...

To stand any chance in CTB battles, there's a few golden rules you have to follow:-

- Plan your battles and get your people into position/equipped with correct weapon and weapon mode before it kicks off. Use sneak/terrain and "fire threshold" settings to get your squad set up without triggering any enemy action.

- 2 guns must cover any advancing trooper - use snipers on single shot. Advancing trooper should use best burst/heavy/energy weapon available in case they detect a hidden enemy

- Use pistols!!! The M29 or laser pistol (mid to end of campaign) do plenty of damage and only use 3 APs (2 with Fast Shot trait). This means your guy will shoot first when they detect an enemy - as the enemy then has to re-start their shoot sequence over, if they are equipped with a 4 AP or high AP cost weapon (including racial modifiers), they will NEVER get a chance to shoot back!!

Use a pistolero or 2 with a burst fire trooper (burst always goes first!!!) to clear out rooms without taking any hits!!

- Specialise!!!! Apart from the usual skills such as first aid/doctor etc., you should build up 1 traps expert, one thief (sneak/lockpicks), one science geek and one grenadier. I have one high sneak/traps/lockpick "sapper" who I use to sneak into enemy minefields and disarm/re-arm them. When she's done and back safely, I bait the enemy into "thier" minefield and laugh as they come back to Earth in little chunks!!

- BURST GOES FIRST!!! Burst fire troopers (especially Pancor/.50 BMG) should lead all assaults/movement backed up by snipers using single mode weapons. Use terrain/building to keep lead burst troops out of each other line of sight to avoid "friendly fire".

- .50 BMG - don't waste this on a low PE NPC!! Make a strong ".50 sniper" NPC and tear enemies a new arsehole at 45 hexes!! Back this guy up with a small guns/energy weapons sniper and you can control a large piece of the map with 2 NPCs - the sniper (with sniper rifle) hits the enemy first, stopping their charge and then .50 BMG trooper smokes 'em. If they survive the first burst, the sniper hits them again while the .50 BMG trooper builds APs for the next burst. Combine Fast Shot and a .50 BMG to hit 'em hard and hit 'em first!!!

Enjoy!

Viktor wrote:- .50 BMG - don't waste this on a low PE NPC!!

I have one word on the .50 BMG: Stein. That guy is great for covering large areas with accurate (and ergo deadly) fire. I usually have him equipped with a Sniper Rifle and a .50 BMG at the first opporunity.

OTB

OnTheBounce wrote: I have one word on the .50 BMG: Stein. That guy is great for covering large areas with accurate (and ergo deadly) fire. I usually have him equipped with a Sniper Rifle and a .50 BMG at the first opporunity.

OTB

The very fellow!! I give him the Brace perk ASAP so he can carve straight through the late SM missions. I use Trevor as a "heavy assaulter" and max him out on heavy weapons/throwing. His PE sucks, but with high sneak and Fast Shot, he's the ideal compliment to a "pistolero" for storming rooms!

Also use crouch alot. I get all my guys in position behind cover if it's possible. Set them up in different areas. Select your entire squad and then hit "Q" to stand, "A" to crouch, or "Z" to go prone. Stand, shoot, crouch.

Bunching your squad is bad in any circumstance so don't do it. There are keyboard shortcuts for formations - use them. And always have a sniper or two on hand as cover.

Jimmyjay86 wrote:Also use crouch alot. I get all my guys in position behind cover if it's possible. Set them up in different areas. Select your entire squad and then hit "Q" to stand, "A" to crouch, or "Z" to go prone. Stand, shoot, crouch.

Most effective if you have 2 separate "fireteams"! If you have quick fingers, you can get a 3-4 AP interval between volleys, making it really tough for the enemy to get any shots off.

i play CTB

Turn based mode WAS fun, espescially when you were by yourself in fallout and FO2. But, FOT's real time makes some things easier, like ambushes. I have played with TB in single player and think it sucks, even when one of my squadmates hits someone else in my squad. Screw control, if you have everyone a bit spread out, friendly fire should be a bit less of a problem, right?

I enable CTB only for the purpose of time-saving.

I used to hate it how i had to walk all the way to the exit grid TB-wise, when i was forced to halt for some komodo's and roaches having a skirmish.

CTB solves this, this is why i like it. I never considered using it in combat though. You get wounded more quickly and waste more ammunition.

CTB is where its at. I really really love setting up ambushes. Of course it is really fun when the enemy ambushes you, because then you gotta think fast, really fast. I'm used to thinking fast and changing my tactics thanks to Red Alert, StarCraft, ect.

But ya, it helps to have 1 sneak character. I don't like to have my squad full of 'em. Trappers aren't that useful, they can help you make more money, but other than that, they are nothing special. Grenadiers are extremely usefull, see that outline of a person, lob a grenade over the wall several times, wait for the scream. SNIPERs are extremely useful, early on i like to have 2, then after my skills are enhanced, i only need 1. Big gunners, I like 2. Early on i use Max/Malice and Alice. Then i get John and Box. And make sure you have a CH of atleast 6-8, so then you can get Clarise

I used CTB when doing ambushes, but I prefer TB when the battle gets longer. However, for that part wherein I get to do a drive-by shooting (rooftop raiders), CTB is the fun way to go.

I seem to have noticed that you tend to get hit more often by enemies if you do TB, as if they have the time to aim. In CTB battles, I noticed that they are more often "at a loss." Bug?

All in all I use either CTB or TB depending on the situation.

Viktor, I'm interested in learning more about "developing" cool characters, am particularly interested in handling the biggest big gun in the game (forgot what that was called, but I think you needed a STR of 9 just to manage that gun), and the coolest/biggest/baddest bullet/laser sniper rifle. I didn't get to know the game much before to know what combos were cool and which guns were worth their weight in gold.

Hope you can help!

In order of value those would be:

Rifles:
-Laser rifle (though id rather not use, like it for its blend of range and stoppingpower)
-Sniper rifle (mainly versus flesh and blood opponents)
-FN fal (good damage in burst mode)

Shotguns:
-Pancor (bleghh, but fact it its good at both point blank range and from some distance. Emp shells will smack the ... out of bots)

Pistols:
Desert eagle with .44 AP or JHP (fair range and damage +low ap cost)
M29 revolver (good damage + very low ac cost)

Machine guns:
-M249 SAW
-Browning M2 (with .50 CAL DU slugs)